I have the PT-1 pedals and was able to make them work so it is odd the HE’s don’t. DIview.exe tells me I get about %60 of raw data on full throttle so I set the Acceleration Axis Deadzone Outside to 60 and then I got full throttle. I also have to set some small inside deadzone on both throttle and brake as reflected in DIview.
So if you set the Acceleration Axis Deadzone Outside to 20 you still don’t get full throttle?
If you’re playing FM7 demo on PC, then you probably tried to change FFB settings to make it more … present. Usually the first thing the PC user does is disables centering spring (or you might have disabled it in your control panel) and damper. This is reasonable, since centering spring does just that - it centers your wheel no matter what and that is not something you would want.
Today I tried FM7 demo on XBOX One, the first time I launched the demo track I realized I haven’t adjusted FFB settings, as damper was so strong that wheel was hard to move. But I also noticed that my wheel was not autocentering. Upon opening advanced settings i discovered that both “Centering spring” and “Damper” are set to 100. So I decided to experiment and put them to lower values (Damper 10, spring 25). And turns out it is much better. The centering spring in FM7 Demo does not work like centering spring on PC, it actually works more like a self aligning force which is what you would want. In other words, centering spring in FM7 demo is not constant, it is conditional and it kick in for example when your car loses grip and you finally get some semblance of behavior that is typical in other racing games.
That being said, I could in no way reproduce the same behavior when playing FM7 demo on PC. No matter what settings I changed, the wheel becomes completely dead when car loses grip and starts to slide.
Since I’m working on a new version of Forza EmuWheel I’m actively investigating what FFB data the game is actually sending to your wheel when your car slides and the wheel feels dead. Maybe, just maybe there is a way to improve it.
To summarize, centering spring in FM7 demo on PC is neither working as centering spring in other games on PC, neither the way it works on Xbox.
Here are my findings:
Centering spring parameter which you can change in advanced settings DOES NOT refer to center spring on your wheel. In other words it does not affect the conditional effect type SPRING.
Here you can see what parameters Forza is sending to wheel when centering spring is set to max:
As you see Positive Coefficient and Negative coefficient is always 0, which means that wheel won’t autocenter.
Now just to experiment, I added 0.3 positive and negative coefficient each time the game sends SPRING effect to wheel:
Surely enough, the wheel now centers constantly, when i turn it soon I feel a resistance and it wants to turn back to center. As you can see in the picture Positive and Negative Coefficient is now 0.3.
Conclusion: NEVER EVER set centering string to 0 in advanced settings as it does not control SPRING effect on your wheel, but rather it controls the self aligning force. Even if you disable centering spring in control panel of your wheel, centering string parameter in Forza will still have an effect on FFB.
Hello Aaron,
long story short: GT2RS the animal to tame, looses a lot FFB when I steer over around 20 degree.
I can understand it means it’s loosing front grip. But shortly after I let go of my throttle, it counter steers automatically, throwing the car to the wall.
is automatic counter-steering the new thing that I am not catching?
Fanatec V2, latest driver v292
It’s a 700 hp car you need to learn to drive nothing else. There’s no automatic countersteer you don’t need a dev for that.
I am preetay sure wheels turn opposite side and return like auto-pilot isn’t meant to happen :l it sure didnt happen in every other racing game including fh3?
exactly, there’s something going on in the background, usually if you lift a little bit and countersteer you can catch any slide and still keep the car going forward if you’re fast enough but not in forza
ROUND 2
Using Aarons recommendations,
FFB scale 75
Vibration 0
Steering sensitivity 100
Steering linearity 50
FFB understeer 5 (cannot set to 0)
FFB min force 100 (this setting seems backwards lower value increases center force and higher lowers it)
Damper 0
Spring 0
Here are the results :Forza 7 Demo PC Wheelplay Take 2 IMPROVEMENTS!
Definitely much better that my first run, but something still feels a bit off, like the FFB cant keep up with the physics, most notably when drift and transitioning (especially on sim steering).
This is not the topic and Your post has nothing to do with the force feedback, still think there’s nothing you can do but practice to solve Your problem.
how is it not relevent? the ffb is doing the steering for me
when i said auto countersteer, it really meant ffb doing countersteer and self align to center. Urg… its difficult to put it in the words when you negatively point out I noob.
it happens mostly on first right corner when entering sandy trail area just right before the tunnel
You are just saying that your force feedback wheel is giving you feedback mate, that porsche is hard to drive but with some effort you will be able to master it.
It’s hard for me too because it’s also on a hard track without any tuning but i kinda suggest you to use some of the ingame assists and you’ll see it’s not a force feedback problem.
Another tip i can give is to lower the force feedback strenght if you can’t counter it, it’s you that drive the car not the wheel by itself.
DylanDrog,
I know and understand what you are saying and you are correct. I also think that you are misunderstanding him. If the wheel settings are high and the in game settings are too strong the wheel will clip very badly having the stronger forces only show up. With the heavy settings any car is a handful and will seem like it drives itself with the wheel forces trying to center the wheel.
If someone has a wheel and treats it like a plug and play controller the FFB will not feel correct.
My wheel has several settings that I adjust to get a game to play properly…
DOR ( Wheel degree rotation ) 0-900 degrees I use 540
FFB strength 0-100
SHO type of dampening 0-100 in increments of 10…not sure completely what this is but I have it turned off
ABS antilock brakes vibration when the wheels first lock up 0-100
LIN linear adjustments 0-100
DRI Drifting assisting 0-5 ( 5 different settings )
BRF Brake force 0-100 in increments of 10
These are all on the wheel and not adjusting anything in the game settings. That’s another level of fine tuning to be had. Again if plug and play it will not feel good ( too strong ) and may feel like it is driving itself with the center Force.
My Wheel has 5 presets that I can set up different settings for. 1 a light wheel, 2 a heavy wheel, 3,4, &5 different racing game set ups or any combination I want.
My point is if I just bought this wheel and plugged it in And raced I would not know how good it could feel unless I adjusted the settings. If I didn’t know how good it can actually feel how do I know what to look for?
As bad as this sounds for the Glacial White they may have to try some of the posted set ups in the forum and adjust the wheel and game settings to a more favorable setting. I think turning some of the forces down to “0” and start there and work your way up. What Glaciar White is describing, to me, sounds like way too strong of forces here.
FH3 is an arcade game…
I’ve been monitoring this thread without really posting as I’ve only had 30 to 45 minutes each night to try out the demo. First night was worse than the second but the Porsche is still ridiculous and keeps boomeranging into the wall, even at like 30 to 40 mph. So I’ve tried at least half a dozen different wheel setups on this forum. The problem is they are literally all over the place. One person has almost opposite recommendations to the one after.
When I booted up the wheel I tried my FM6 settings (with 720 DOR) then my Horizon 3 settings (with 270 DOR) with no luck. It seemed odd that the default wheel rotation was 540 and not 900. I tried Ialryn and Soldier’s settings next and for me on Xbox and they didn’t work at all. Gurkensapp’s (I’m probably totally butchering your name, sorry) settings worked best for the Nissan. I could get the car around the track and win the race but the FFB felt very heavy almost like a heavy correctional force and there wasn’t really any feel or nuance for the road or car. It kinda sorta worked on the Porsche but the car kept putting itself in the wall. Dan the Dartman’s settings had the best feel for the car and road but the Porsche was completely undriveable putting me in the wall within the first 3 turns.
So far with the Porsche using the wheel I can only manage a little over 3 minute lap driving slow with judicious use of rewind. Just to clarify my wheel and settings, I have a Logitech G920 used on Xbox One (haven’t been able to download PC demo yet). I updated to the latest firmware using the Logitech software on PC. This wheel hasn’t had an update to firmware in over a year so firmware is probably not the issue here. I’m not going to give up yet. I can wait for things to hopefully straighten themselves out.
-k
Looks like every wheels need his own settings.
@Turn10driver
I want rev lights work on xbox! On ps4 they work for some titles
Kdogg you achieve high times with wheel probably cause you’re new to wheel, it took a lot of practice for me to get near joypad’s times.
^ this is what this thread was all about. This is why i warned you dont even bother buying a wheel. They are not going to straighten themselves out and there is still massive problems with the ffb or underlying physics. None of us see the back end of things so as i said before are the physics causing poor ffb or is there just poor ffb?
Its ok to be assume that T10 wont get this issue resolved, but we currently have a dev in here farming information from all of us; and we should really give Aaron the benefit of the doubt here that he is truly making a push to get this all resolved, and to get us improved force feedback with a wheel. So constantly posting this sort of stuff up at the moment really isnt helpful. I know we have been let down over and over again over the FFB in Forza, but we may have a genuine opportunity here.
On top of that, the wheel in Forza is just as fast as a control pad. I can easily make it into the top 50 when I make a push for faster times, the only thing that stops anyone from achieving fast times, is themselves. That could be lack of practice, lack of desire, or what I do personally. I tend not to get high on the LB very often, because I do not like running the LB lines on tracks. I also do not like using the cars specifically tuned to dominate the LB. Instantly takes me out of the running for the faster times, but when I throw that stuff out of the window and have at it -
I doubt the underlying physics are the issue here. I play Assetto corsa (racing and drifting), Raceroom, iRacing (and lots more) racing games. I can not think of a singular instance where I have had to drive a car any differently in forza compared to them. Sure, in FH3 I have to turn down the DOR because that game feels awful any higher than 360° to me; but in a Forza Motorsport title, every single road car I drive at 900°; I only drop the DOR when using race cars. And yeh, the FFB is by far the worst thing about using a wheel with Forza Motorsport; especially FM6. But it was still workable, it would still allow you to pick up on the cues to keep the car on the track and pointing where you wanted it to go when it came down to racing. Drifting was bad though, I can not defend how the FFB was for drifting at all. Sure Forza has its foibles with regards to physics, but so does every single racing game out there.
I would never advise anyone to buy a wheel just for Forza, but thankfully there is no need to do that. Dirt Rally is excellent on a wheel on the xbox, and if the person looking for a wheel happens to have a decent gaming PC; then it opens up a massive world of racing games to them to use with that racing wheel.
All I keep seeing at the moment though, is you bashing T10 because of how the FFB is in the demo, stating nothing will change. Saying the G920 isnt a great wheel (when it actually is, especially if you get it for a bargain price as some have), and stating that the wheel isnt as fast as a control pad. None of that is helpful at all, to anyone.
@PTG Baby Cow: On the whole I don’t have any regrets over buying the wheel. On Forza I will start on slower cars and hopefully it will be better, and of course hopefully they will correct this and/or someone will come up with good settings for the final game. I also have several other games that I can play on wheel that I’m having a lot of fun with so good purchase for me. I’ll probably get PC2 as well.
@DylanDrog: I wish that were the case but there’s more to it with this demo. The car should not respond like that and go into the wall so easy even at low speed. With the new wheel I downloaded Project Cars 1 and was lapping Bathurst in a Ruf as I adjusted FFB settings. This sort of thing (car peeling off to the side into the wall) never happened and the game felt better from the start. My times were a little slower than Forza 6 because I couldn’t drive as reckless and I have to adjust to the wheel but nothing like this demo.
-k
I will be negative about the game all i wish. I have actually posted feedback, but the fact is this is the way they choose to do ffb. Aaron feels there is room for improvement but thinks they are on the right path, yet they are the only driving game that thinks when the grips gone so is ffb. They need to redo the whole thing, and in my experience with forza they absolutely will not do that. They cant even be bothered to fix lingering flaws with car models either and carry them over from title to title even tho the game was built “from the ground up”. I have a right to bash the game and say nothing will change because for the last decade nothing has. Just because we finally have a developer in this thread talking to us doesnt mean that anything will change. This is likely a damage control tactic, surely soon he will say that the demo is finalized so he cant implemtn any changes but it will be fixed for the game. Then we will see this thread explode once more with people who believed that things are going to be fixed. It doesnt need fixing it needs a complete overhaul. You own a pc, you have played titles with proper ffb, you should be knowledgeable enough to know that the fundamentals are not there! When pcars came out many people has issues with the ffb there and thought something was missing. But i dont think anyone thought it was completely atrocious. However, in the adjustments you could get that tweak to make it feel better personally. People wanted better defaults, but the fact of the matter is you can still make it work how its supposed to. Regardless of what settings are implemented in forza you can not do this. Which is why imo either physics is completely broken, or ffb is. Iracings FFB guy rarely uses his wheel and only uses a g27 yet i dont think very many people have a problem with iracings ffb. Which is because its directly linked to the physics. The physics do their job ffbs job is very easy. It’s like aaron did something similar, built the ffb to base on the physics and the physics dont work so neither does ffb, then he nor anyone else bothered to even drive the game with a wheel.
Dont put words in my mouth, i never once said that the pad is faster. A wheel can be just as fast if you want to put in the effort of getting used to the terrible ffb. I actually know this first hand as I raced for years with PTG Ty1er Ward. He is solely a wheel user and has many top 10 hardcore times all done with a wheel.
It is a good entry level wheel, but thats what it is an entry level wheel. Entry level = worst but cheapest wheel. If i were to offer for free a fana v2.5 and a g29 to anyone in this thread they are all going to take the fana. Similarly you have a perfectly working g920 yet for some reason you went out and bought a t300… why would you do this if the g29 isn’t the worst new wheel on the market? I encourage people to get a wheel, i wish everyone was playing on a wheel. This isn’t reality. Many dont want a wheel, many dont have the room, or money for a wheel etc. But if someone is asking between a g29 and a t300 or pretty much any other wheel on the market i will encourage them to go with the other wheel.
