No you have to break them. The maths doesn’t add up…
I tune a car to go 245mph the Ai cars can now go 245mph, but the Ai cars can take bends better with more grip, and they can draft off you as well, you can’t draft off the Ai cars. the Ai cars can reach their 245mph on flat ground, you can only reach 245mph on steep downhills. So instead you go for acceleration, and change the car to 190mph. now the Ai top speed is 210 mph, but the Ai cars can take bends better with more grip, and they can draft off you as well, you can’t draft off the Ai cars. So now you can’t catch them, because their top speed is higher… your car just squeals as they drive away. So you try the middle 220mph, and now the Ai can both out accelerate you, and match your speed. You do catch them occasionally, but not the front 2 cars.
I have tried every tune possible on about 20 cars, so far just the Saleen S1 can win with a closer to perfect race. Otherwise you need to break the Ai, and get a fake win. This is on Goliath with no walls to help you. The Colossus might be even harder than the Goliath.
As a programmer I have some idea where the maths is going wrong. Our tunes are not fully working, and the Ai may be seeing a different tune to the one on our car. The drafting is broken because of rubberbanding. The top speed is broken because of gravity being reduced for the new tyre system, so now we don’t have the hills to gain speed like in FH4. Plus in FH4 you could reach top speed on flat ground on Goliath by the trams. You can’t do that in FH5. Top speed is supposed to be based on flat ground not steep downhills… that Ai doesn’t have that problem. Our tyres have to warm up a bit, the Ai tyres start off warmed up. Ai brake in front of you because drafting is broken, so they hit a speed that they pass you, and then stop, because they weren’t supposed to draft that fast.
All of that is messed up programming, not…
…finding the right difficulty for “ones own” abilities.
One thing I will say is in regularly battling and defeating these super quick drivatars it’s made me much faster and sharper for when I go online. Once you are ahead you can coast in front of them though and they are suddenly timid.
When driving in Expert or Pro - depends on my race, the #1 thing I can’t stand on the AI spectrum, the impossible dive bomb at ridiculous speed they attempt to do on a 90 degree corner.
I’m no pro, but I know how to set up the turn with loading the front end, trail braking through it, and using the race line vs. the provided drive line - which should be the fastest way to complete the corner. But, if I try to drive like the above, I will inevitably have an AI hit me in my driver door at stupid speed in the apex of the turn, and take me into the wall with him.
I then need to rewind, and will watch what the AI did, and they just do not slow down. . .so frustrating.
The way around them is to just let them pass, and do the over and under to retake for the position since they overcook the turn, but this just ruins the driving experience for me.
Why do I need to be on a constant look out for this?
If the AI pull away, jump track lines, are just toxic in a race, I can restart that race, and might get away with a new set of more polite AI to race with.
BUT, regardless of a better set of AI, it doesn’t seem to have any effect on the high speed corner attempt.
In my observation, every race has that same issue - . So, I just rewind, lose any chance of a clean race reward, and change the way I approach the corner - which means having to keep to the inside with no chance of a good exit speed - just so I can avoid any contact.
This is my biggest AI gripe, and I hope one day it gets resolved.
Being fast in rivals doesn’t mean much when you race against drivatars. You can set 1% rivals times consistently on every track and Ai is just faster during races. It doesn’t matter how good you are in rivals since you never take the racing lines until you’re clear of the field. This means that if your launch is bad, as it is with RWD or FWD generally, and all the more so in upper performance classes, and you start 10th or 12th, there will be a few car lengths for you to catch up to the 11th drivatar, let alone the others. You find your way up the moving swamp of drivatars until you catch fresh air - and three drivatars in a close pack but not fighting eachother are still one or two secs ahead. Forget making mistakes, or going deep in a corner, because then next corner is drivatar divebomb.
I read some stuff here like I got to have the proper car and the proper tune to win. But hey, i tried the mixed surface seasonal championship with a RWD cayman and some tuning from myself. I just crushed the drivatars on the two point to points, but oh my- Caldera !! I just coulnd’t finish higher than 4th. And was not even on unbeatable. You might tell me to awd-swap the cayman. Right, but did I mention that i came fourth with a fastest lap 8 tenth of a sec faster than the fastest lap of any of the three ai in front ? And that the 11 AI had AWD ? My time would put me at 55000th on rivals leaderborads, so not very good. But the AI was even slower, so how come it was so insanely difficult so get a good finish ?
All that to say that i don’t expect to win on unbeatable with a maxed out S1879 RWD cayman with no tcs played on keyboard on caldera mixed surface and all its tight turns. But let’s be clear : the AI is not that good. Because they follow the game’s driving line and that is nowhere near the fastest racing line. So how are they actually unbeatable ?
Because:
You start at the back
the devs gave them an even better launch than in previous games. In FH4 RWD AI had a huge power-down from TCS at launch, very noticeable in high tiers. Now if the AI bring RWD its worth noting… but you can hardly spot the difference at launch vs AWD AI.
They are very eager to pass away in vain glory divebombing you every turn.
The AI in front are not fighting eachother ! Looks like second and third etc are perfectly fine with their positions. Meanwhile in the field its AI free for all and u need to get through this.
Ai is unfair because the AI have an insane advantage over the player. Very painful in RWD with no assist.
Instead of making the player face every absurd disadvantage the devs could imagine, how about not feeling so strong about decisions made, and actually balancing out some things.
I’ve unfortunately not been clear on what I meant, and used the wrong wording to explain, sorry.
To clarify what I meant:
What your comfortable playing… (ie even with the current AI as is, I’ll remain playing unbeatable and losing with cars that can’t keep pace, or else they are simply going to waste), others might be more satisfied playing lower and wining constantly, that’s their choice “for the moment” until more info or resolved.
The choice of wording “abilities” was a bad one, maybe “enjoyment” would have been a better one? Again I apologise.
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I’m also not arguing about rubberbanding etc, as I said above you are right, I agreed. But I was also stating that I’ve witnessed and find that what DamMe was saying is also correct, I’m experiencing the exact same time issues as DamMe. There is logic to both sides of this. Hence I’m not being biased to either of you. I can clearly see the AI rubberbanding, speeding away, and cornering like they are on rails, if I mess up. But at the same time their average win times are always around my best time, if I sit back and watch.
The Goliath has many areas where if you don’t take a corner cleanly the AI will punish you badly for your mistakes. Under railway line, road up to the tunnels and exiting tunnels, and last section leading to finish line near the Apex Festival entrance…there is a few more but I can’t think of them just now.
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What I don’t agree with you on is having to deliberately break the AI to win. That’s not what I’m seeing here, I can reach top end speed in my LaFerrari on flat ground and even slightly over this going downhill, with RPM spare. Do not take the “top speed” in the tuner as an exact figure, we’ve known for years these stats are buggy at the best of times. I honestly don’t have anything to compare your experience with, if I did I would say.
I’m not trying to be argumentative , I’m simply trying to clarify your exact terminology, as it sounds like you are calling any tuner who can tune a car to beat the unbeatable an exploiter and it’s coming across as offensive… (to clarify, is that what you are saying? Yes or No)
Maybe this is why others are also struggling to understand this “tune to break AI” terminology you are using? Fact is we aren’t, we are tuning the cars to their best ability, and using this to win, along with perfect driving. If we could tune to break the AI, I’m 99.99999999% this would have been fixed in the first hotfix, as it allows for some serious exploiting across all aspects of the game not just unbeatable AI but everything related to the AI physics engine.
My experience is based on S2 - Goliath - Average win time 10 mins 58 secs but in order to achieve that win, I need to pass all AI within 33% of the Goliath or else I know I will lose by at least a second… that means I need to have no more than 1% bad driving across that whole race. 2 minor mistakes or 1 serious mistake and I can kiss the win goodbye, because the AI (normally 2) will then flick a switch and use their Falcon 9 Merlin Engines to fly ahead (again agreeing with you on their ability to go above your top speed in cars simply not able to do so).
If anything the AI physics engine is breaking our tunes, not the other way around, hence a huge number of cars even tuned to the max can’t beat them. If it was the other way around you or I could take any car and tune it and beat the AI, but we can’t, and that’s the huge difference between FH4 and FH5. You yourself have just stated basically the same by saying you’ve tried tuning 20 cars yet can’t beat them, why? Because the AI physics engine is given an unfair advantage towards the AI, not the player. You need to tune a car capable of sticking to that of the AI (when they cheat) and simply outrace them, hence the small number of cars currently present in the game which can actually achieve this.
As said I’m not trying to be argumentative, nor state you are a liar, what I’m trying to do here is use your terminology and what it sounds like you are stating “ie the tuners are the exploiters”, and look at it from the other side we aren’t the ones cheating, it’s the AI… and the only thing controlling the AI is their physics engine which also funny enough effects us and our tunes when racing against them.
Look at it this way; if you could beat them all the time with your S1 tune? Would you then be exploiting the AI in order to win, based on your own terminology? (Again yes or no?)
The AI in this season’s Trial have been a mixed bag. About half the time, they appear to be relatively competitive without going super fast on rails. I’ve had a few times where they’ve been aggressive with some unnecessary ramming. I’ve seen them drive completely out of control and just drive off a bridge when they are over halfway over it. And there’ve been some instances of AI getting impossibly out in front right from the start. Often it is just one AI that is uncatchable, but I’ve had a few races where three or four AI were uncatchable. When there are three or more like that, the race is just unwinnable.
The idea was “support your fav country’s cars” then they put a LM002 in race…
People keep saying “right car” but then the game put something like this in their gameplay…
Yes it is free to choose other country cars but what is the point of this world cup thing.,…
Dear Team Forza, I have been playing FH5 for a few days and I’ve realized that the game picks up on how fast you can beat Drivatars and ups the the difficulty level in the game until at the highest level. I’ve played previous versions like FH3 and I’ve never had a problem with the Unbeatable on that one as long as I hit the corner correct, but in FH5 that’s not the case. It’s like hitting the corner correctly puts you farther behind and if you go faster than normal like 5-10 mph or kph, you end up in the dirt or scraping the wall, not to forget the random bumps I run into that do not be there at first but come out of nowhere sometimes, they’re like weird blips. Oh and they can be in cars that I have as well, meaning I can drive that same car they have and try to corner like them to a T and I either crash or end up in the dirt. It should be called unreal because because it’s crazy how I literally follow the brake lines too. So y’all nerfed what was good which slows down progress, take out the Mercedes AMG one Forza edition like we weren’t going to notice but leave this busted difficulty?¿ I like FH3 and FH4 better than 5 because I bought y’all’s Premium Version too, just to feel ripped off and I enjoyed getting it at first . What kills me as well y’all nerfed getting money and cars in the game dramatically so it’s takes way too long to get either 98% of the time, I feel like y’all should rebuff that if I gotta work this hard like dang
I really liked drag racing in FH3.
I tried solo and messed with drivatar levels. Same car, same times within 1/100. Got beat anything over highly skilled, same cars same pi.
In a straight line.
In live drags I had 18 sec dart and Speciale. Won often against serious real players.
Drivatars launching harder and pulling away from a consistent hard running car, and I tried several, is ridiculous.
Facts, I wouldn’t mind if there was way more reward for a broken AI but no they nerfed that. So y’all mean to tell me I bought the premium digital version for no reason, vip membership isn’t like FH3 with double the credits on wheelspin for buying the vip membership now?¿ I spent $90 for $20 dollars content?¿ I kinda feels like it no offense. I’ve literally bought every good super car in the game and they can be driving the same car as well and if I mimic there turning and brake correctly I’m getting left. I could understand if it was a human player online but no, its not. Straight CPU
Playlist CC Championship again… This week with limited car selection.
Its hard to beat on high skilled in CC and it doesnt makes sense. I’m 10+s in front in other events
I see you did it in cars tuned to the max for the championship. I did it in the Jeep Trackhawk with no tuning applied. I wonder if the AI and their corresponding cars performed better when you force them to use a tuned car as opposed to forcing them to use a stock one.
Also top 1000 includes cheats so that’s really top 500ish. And I don’t see in real life how lowering you PI would help you, who in real life would put offroad tyres on a road car?
The train formation driving the AI adopts doesn’t help just acts like a mobile road block, they start and finish in order in every race, from what I have seen.
Unbelievable that PG still hasn’t addressed this. I’ve been playing Forza for many years…it used to provide great & enjoyable fun…now FH5 & the Drivatar behavior have turned the experience into a loathing, deplorable, & frustrating weekly saga. This started a bit with the Lego expansio… though now: Drivatar aggression, railing (cheating physics), speed, & blocking behavior has been amped to a ridiculous level. All while providing no poll positioning options & starting players down in the Grid.
I never thought that Weekly Championships would no longer matter to me… that completing challenges now just isn’t worth this level of frustration. PG is killing the game by vastly reducing the fair/fun factor.
In this season’s Trail and Seasonal Championship, I didn’t think the AI was too bad. A few races where the leaders took off, but that seemed less that usual. A few instances of aggressive driving but no blatant sudden 90 degree turns in a straight just to knock me off the road.
the AI was “ok” as long as you’re on tarmac, the moment they hit the dirt they flies off again, especially the top 2 spots, cant catch them even with the right suspesnion and tyres.
. What kills me as well y’all nerfed getting money and cars in the game dramatically so it’s takes way too long to get either 98% of the time, I feel like y’all should rebuff that if I gotta work this hard like dang
