i have to agree, the more i play the more i get pissed because of the cheating drivatars. it’s killing the fun, if it’s no fair contest. they should rename the drivatars into cheatatars, because that’s a more proper term for this type of AI.
my guess, they sacrificed too much for the great looking graphics and now there’s not enough computing power left for a proper AI.
We should start a “The Drivatars are so bad…” meme as a way to deal with them in a humorous way, while also expressing legit concerns.
I’ll start:
The Drivatoars are is so bad… I was running a Street Scene race on Pro, (maybe Expert?) using a S1 car and with a high speed tune (of course!), and they ran into an oncoming vehicle that caused a massive pile up behind me. Yay, for me, right? Wrong. Some of the Drivatars rocketed past me on a parallel road below my current position, drove UP the hill to the road I was on, cut in front of me and just kept on going as if noting had happened. These were not off road, 4x4s. These were typical hyper cars like Porsche, Aston Martin and McLaren.
I’ve never seen anything like this before, in any racing game, and I don’t mean in a complimentary way.
The runway Drivatars that break away from the pack… Usually one, two or three cars… And rocket away faster than is possible even with top tier human tunes is probably this iterations biggest issue. They appeared in previous Forza games, but not to this extent. This is something entirely “new”, and is literally ruining the solo race experience at higher levels (where players can make the most money).
ManteoMax has stated the developers are aware of the Drivatar issues, so we can only hope they actually get resolved in the future.
I want it to be noted, it’s not just a case of making the higher difficulties harder for hardcore players. The issues many people are experiencing are inherent across all difficulty levels. I’ve seen runaway Drivatars in Average, and below difficulties when I tried lower difficulties just for testing. So, there are systemic issues that need to be addressed and not just on a difficulty by difficulty level basis.
Drivatars seem to have unlimited traction, no matter what cars they have. Fwd and rwd just rocket at the start and out of corners like hell. They always have lots of power more then yourself and they have close to no physical effects of the track and weather conditions you are struggling with.
Sometimes it even feels like they exremely change the build and tune of the car midrace multiple times. From lot of power to perfect cornering, back to full power.
In the same race, you pass one on the brakes, just to have him outbrake you the very next corner.
So in the end, they just have perfect cars, way above any PI they are shown with, and we are just lucky, they only uses some advantages at the same time.
And I din’t use the top2 drivatar difficulty so far. With the right car and tune, I could win on unbeatable settings at FH4 and think I can at FH5 too. But first want to use the cars I have and like, not searching for the misrated topcars
Hope they find a solution to make the drivatars more reasonable, I have no problems when they are challenging, but the way they drive atm is just frustrating and not made for close racing.
The leaked developer version of Forza Horizon 3 (PC) that made the rounds in 2016, provided documented proof the Drivatars operate under completely separate physics than player cars. They have better grip, downforce, speed, etc. The amounts change depending on difficulty and the PI the player is using according to their upgrades.
I’ve read on other forums the Drivatars also upgrade mid-race as well.
Another factor is players may also be handicapped by how much understeer, or oversteer may be forced upon their car depending on the difficulty level… Although, this also might be part of the potentially inconsistent corning assists that are in play even when simulation steering is active (Forza is the best racer using a controller, but to achieve this there are numerous assists active at all times players can never turn off).
If all of these factors are true, Drivatars are (were) never meant to compete with players on an equal level.
It’s disheartening, but would be manageable if we didn’t experience so many anomalies like bad cornering assists and runaway Drivatars at the same and multiple times during a race.
I’m not a programmer, but it appears all of the limitations that would normally make Drivatars appear to operate on a similar level to players have been removed, and/or are being broken when the Drivatars are in actual races. Why this is happening (if this is the case) is beyond me, but we can all see that it is happening in one form or another and it’s ruining the fun and immersion they’re supposed to provide.
No DeClouie - I know you’re a good deal faster than I am.
I don’t know what just happened but I just beat the drivatars on unbeatable consecutively 3 times around Los Jardines circuit in D Class in ECT Darth Hokie’s Sprite tune - 765 716 253
I initially ran an expert race around Bahia in a golf '92 in D and won easily, then went to Los Jardines in the same golf beat the Pro drivatars - then upped it to Unbeatable and they beat me - swapped to the Sprite and beat them fairly easily - the guy in second only managed a 1:11 lap compared to my 1:08 - on my third outing against them, they were still running 1:11 mostly but I managed a 1:06xx
I have in this thread tried to beat unbeatable before and failed - so I’m completely gobsmacked as have tried the sprite on other courses and still not managed it.
If you or anyone else could try this out I’d appreciate it just to see if this is a complete outlier or if I’m finally losing it.
I tried this because I’d seen your post and hadn’t tried those just below unbeatable before - I think ran above average for most of the career races - then tried unbeatable when I’d read so much about them.
A good Sprite build is good.
I suspect the tune you are using is a good build that does not waste pi.
I honestly couldn’t tell you - I’ve used Hokie’s tunes on the motorsport games for years - so I do know he’s a) quick b) a good tuner.
It was just like something had changed - like I mentioned I have run this same sprite on other tracks and not managed it. Just seemed odd to not only beat them but to be able to do it 3 times on the bounce.
Maybe I was just in the zone - the 1:06 I managed in the last race would put me top 100 in rivals to be fair. But pretty sure I tried this car at another track I was already in the top 100 on and couldn’t manage to beat them - with them putting in lap times seconds ahead of mine.
I’ll try it again another night if nobody else runs it - to see if I can replicate it. Might even be worth me re-visiting some of those other tracks to see if it’s this car/ track combo that’s working for me.
I just ran my Sprite at Los Jardines. Its tuned for street races more than circuits. I ran 1.12s as it needs better handling here but ai was running 1.13s.
I may be wrong but I think drivatars is a server side fix so maybe we will hear something soon.
It did seem easier than usual.
I double checked definitely unbeatable
Umm.nope.
I loaded hokie tune, ver different.
I ran 1.06.7.
AI ran 1.07s and due to my traffic lap I could not catch them.
Oh well, I’m streaming a programme right now to chill before bed.
I’ll try run it again tomorrow, thanks for checking it out - nice time. Shame I thought it could have been something.
Lol next run me 1.05.6 ai 1.07 for the 3rd place ai. I won.
Oh well, that’s something - plus really nice time!
Weird but positive experience last night. Did drivatars get updated in the past few days? I ran a bunch of unbeatable solo races with a few different vehicles. It was like playing FH4. Drivatars were well-behaved (no rubber banding or ramming) and I could win most of the races by several seconds if I didn’t make bad mistakes. If I made several minor mistakes, it didn’t stop me from winning.
Classic Rally is an almost purely RWD division with a single FWD car in it, yet, the AI feels like on highly skilled and above that its using AWD builds for getting their lap times.
In fact all dirt and cross country racing feels wrong and way worse then it did in FH4 against the AI in this game, where they get unaffected by surface quality, rain, jumps, and debris, and now on top of all that have near ridiculous speed and cornering as well, near forcing you to use a meta AWD build to stand even a chance depending on the course.
Tried using the #5 Escort, thought it would have been good for B700 Dirt Classic Rally with next to no work, since its an actual old rally car and all, NOPE, most races I won were painful, race reset filled victory’s, some few were cakewalks, and some were just plainly unwinnable (la selva scramble, and Horizon Baja scramble to be precise).
And this is on HIGHLY SKILLED, I played on Pro in FH4 and Loved dirt racing in that game, so I don’t understand how the devs screwed up the AI this bad and made it so unfun in between this game and the last.
I shouldn’t have to use meta Tunes to win on HIGHLY SKILLED, and classic rally should be completely winnable using a RWD car, its a class for dirt racing before AWD was a thing for Pete’s sake!
Today in weeklies, on fixed highly skilled, I and rest of field got beat by 8 seconds. Not 0.8. 8.0 seconds. Hot Hatch I believe. I took second and rest of field were within 0.5s for next 3-4 places. Forget which track. Sorry. SMH.
Drivatars at higher levels are meant to copy the quicker players who will be in awd.
I am not saying this is the only explanation but consider awd yourself and I know you may not want to.
The badly-behaved AI is back with a vengeance tonight. Polar opposite of last night. It’s like I’m playing two different games. Very lame.
I’ve finished all of this season’s Trial and Championships except the Welcome to the Jungle cross country. I did two races and the advantage that the drivatars have in adverse conditions is ridiculous. Might was well just paint their windscreens black because they obviously do not really need to see anything as they can take every turn perfectly in dark, rainy or foggy conditions. Inclement weather should automatically have an impact on the drivatars’ max skill in a race.
The drivatars weren’t that bad in the other two championships or Trial but they were horrendously advantaged in the bad weather.
Nothing can be more false than this above statement. And NO ! Drivatars don’t mimic anyone. They behave as per their programming.
Yup I used to race unbeatable on 4, and even in a non-meta RWD dirt build I could sometimes win. Now I come in the bottom half consistently, and sometimes dead last when racing RWD on dirt VS pro.
So now I have a choice, either deal with the hassle of having to select the difficulty specifically needed for the race I want to do, or keep the difficulty at a set amount and have it inevitably suck the fun out of some races.
I could go on for a long time about how I hate the AI in this game, but what I really want to talk about is that this would easily be solved if PGG gave us drivetrain restrictions as a blueprint option. But no, apparently being able to force a radio station was deemed more important.
I feel the Forza Horizon has lost its way a bit in the quest for wider audiences. I appreciate the open form and different activities, I just wish they didn’t appear to come at the expense of the racing experience.