To give myself a repertoire of cars for online racing, I’ve been testing different builds/tunes at 800, 900 and 998, keeping my results in a spreadsheet. I quite enjoy the process of taking a new car and trying to get the best out of it, and seeing how it compares against other cars I’ve tested.
This process is, of course, very time consuming, I don’t see that I could actually complete it in 2 years. But it gives the game a certain mystery, as you don’t know what gems are waiting to be discovered.
If we had rivals for every track and class combination, this aspect of the game wouldn’t really exist, as you’d just look at the leaderboards, and the chances of there being a hidden gem that nobody else has found would be very slim. For example, we can be pretty sure that there is no better S2 car for Goliath than the Ultima, because there is a rivals leaderboard for that.
So is the absence of leaderboards for every track and class combination actually a stroke of genius from PG, to force us to do our own car development instead of just grabbing the fastest tunes from the leaderboards?
Of course, even without leaderboards we have youtube and this forum “spoiling” by telling people which cars are good for what type of race in each class, but while I’ve found those sources to be a good guide, I’ve found some very good cars that don’t seem to be popular choices and are outperforming some popular choices in some cases.
Theyve neutered any and all need for skill in this game yet you think they got rid of class rivals to challenge players to make spreadsheets, i dont think so. I believe they’re trying to make the game as unchallenging as possible, taking out rivals so people dont “feel” bad about their times and forcing team multiplayer so half the lobby wins no matter their skill level. I dont know the real reasons behind these decisions but i do know the game isnt fun and if i do play anymore it feels like im forcing myself to because i spent $100 on it.
Well i have do same than you and i have done that will all rally build and cross country builds allready and also with road cars under the a-class but when i got in a-class testing i get bored abaout that. And while i have heard that bac mono is dirt car to beat i have found car that outperform mono really easily. But for me it feels really stupid that only way to test cars is running same races over and over again and even more boring it’s because game is so broken that it dont give ai any other cars than focus and tt’s. And it feel even more stupid that when i do same back in the gran turismo 2 (then need to use pen and paper lol) that there i have open tracks without ai messing and in year 2018 triple a game dont offer me a same.
But without class rivals i cant see myself keep tuning and testing cars very long (well now i have pretty mutch have no choise because my controller right analog stick is in bad shape) because what is reason to build cars when dont have online where to use them or leaderboards where could measure own driving skills and car building skills.
IF I wanted to race online I would not go through every car anyway. I just use the car I want to use and build it to be quick. Problem is I don’t want to race online as its too hard to do that.
I also find it a pain to do this testing stuff. What should I do set up a 5 lap race at a track and run each car and record my best lap time.
I get back to a previous question - why take out rivals in the first place?
All I am doing in this game is getting enough forzathon points in case a good car comes up. I am not doing this trialling each car so all they have done is turn me away by not having rivals, not forcing me down a testing path. I am playing different games instead.
Dude, we get it. You’re a fan of the current leaderboard situation (or lack thereof, rather). You’re in the minority; accept it. This continuous dribble you are leaving all over the forum in unabashed support of whoever’s terrible idea it was to neuter Rivals (the cornerstone of the game) is a) not changing anyone’s mind, b) poorly argued and void of any real point, and c) really starting to get weird – it’s almost as if this terrible horrible idea was yours and you are trying to do PR damage control.
I actually switched my point of view to be in support of at least having leaderboards for every track and class combination that is used for online racing, including the ability to download tunes from them. I posted a feature request to this effect in the wishlist thread. So my support is not unabashed.
But, after weeks of trying out different cars and gradually evolving my understanding of which build elements work best for each class, and getting better at tuning, it just suddenly struck me that I wouldn’t be bothering if we had those leaderboards and downloadable tunes. I’ve very rarely bothered doing this in FM7, most of the time I haven’t managed to do better than the best available leaderboard build/tune, so if something decent is available, I mostly don’t bother much myself.
So it was just a genuine new thought that occurred to me about the whole thing, and I was interested in what other people think. And the answer seems to be a small number of people also enjoy doing their own self motivated testing and keeping track of their results, but most don’t, so there’s my answer.
Well all of us dont use leaderboards to download tunes and for example i would build rivals s1 jeep trailcat different way than version that i would use online because in rivals i need to go as fast as possible even with high risk to messing time than online i like to better handling. I track my times on every car on fh3 also but there it was mutch easier when i could use rivals mode so i could do as many lap i like and didint have ai drivers messing in first one or two lap. Rivals mode also push to tune car all the time faster and end up to make all the time small changes when try to get tiny bit faster time. But now when making new tune and tested and set up pretty decent time dont get that feeling “how i can get this even more faster”. For example i drive bamburgh around with bmw m5 in time 51,8s and my lap record is 51,7s in rivals mode i would spent to 50 laps more to try get 0,2s faster time but now i was “well it’s feel good and it’s pretty fast, next car”
On the one hand, rivals isn’t very interesting… on the other, just about anything is more interesting than charting tedious experimentation with spreadsheets.
…furthermore, that you would simply rely on whatever is sitting at the top of a leaderboard to determine what any given tracks best vehicle is speaks volumes… If youre passionate about Rivals, youre gonna tune the crap out of whatever it takes, regardless of whats already on the board. True, there are some where a particular car is a for gone conclusion (Guilas, Jeep Willys, etc in H3), but there is little in this game that is more satisfying than cracking a single model-dominated top 10 with a car new to the board…and I have managed that numerous times in H3 right on up to the release of H4. So this leaderboards-are-a-crutch stuff is nonsense. And if some impatient people want to view ‘informative’ vids on youtube, this forum, or otherwise, thats their business. Theyre free to play however they like and make use of whatever else they need to improve themselves or simply enjoy the game just like youre free to hand write out spreadsheets or whateva.
I mean I don’t think there needs to be a class leaderboard for every single track in the game, but I think there should be at least a few tracks on offer for each class (from D to X) and race type. Being able to hop in the same car as everyone else is great because it removes tuning from the equation and ideally leaves just the driver (except for the RNGesus component of the street racing boards… SURPRISE CAR! You just barely scraped it, time flagged!) but tuning is equally part of the game and removing the ability to test your skill at that in addition to your skill as a driver is really a shame.
P.s. I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time watching you pull away from me in the last set of bumps at the end of the Moorhead rally trail club rival board, one of these days I’ll figure out how to take them a bit cleaner and I’m coming for you
I’m done with the races and with no proper rivals I’m pretty much done with the game. I can’t even do championships because some genius thought removing them was a great idea. T10 gimped rivals and copped backlash for it. I want to know how PG saw this happening and didn’t change it immediately. They had a year to fix it yet did nothing. Heads need to roll for allowing the game to be released how it was. Stuff like this is why there’s such a huge divide between devs and players. They think they know what we want (despite us constantly telling them) and then are surprised when they learn we want something totally different.
This game is literally the opposite of “competition”, even Horizon3 (that was trash) was 100 times better then the 4th one. The only good thing about this game is… nothing since even manual+clutch is slower then regular manual, so what’s the point?
P.s. yesterday i went to a friend house, and we played Gran Turismo Sport, i got to admit actually a really hard game, Horizon4 tries to be hard but is just bad
NO!!!
I played H3 for the better part of two years.
H4… I think im done after two months!
I wish i would have bought a physical copy so I can return it to game stop right now
Couldn’t disagree with you more, also trying to argue that butchering rivals mode is a stroke of genius on their part is ridiculous, especially considering the backlash that followed the same move in FM7.
As many have already said in this thread and others, this move has completely killed the endgame for a large number of people.
For the record, two points you might want to consider:
Even with class based rivals, nothing is forcing you to check the leaderboards to see the fastest cars, you could still have gone about testing random cars to see what is fastest.
There is absolutely no need to use a top of the leaderboard car in 99.9% of online races I’ve ever done. Most online racers in the game range from terrible to decent, I think in all my online experience of FH3 and FH4 I’ve had probably 5 or 6 encounters total with people that were in the top tier of drivers that I’d describe as unbeatable without a leaderboard car. In fact, I pretty much never bothered to drive any tuned cars in FH3 and my online average finishing position for that game is 3rd, that’s with cars that are completely stock and while I’d describe myself as fast, I’m certainly not a top tier driver.
Nah, I don’t think Rivals was butchered because of “selfmotivational car testing”. They probably just want to get rid off the game mode in general and thus tried to turn it down continuously in every new installment.
Nevertheless I do “selfmotivational car testing” quite a lot by myself because I just like it. Created my own test track for S1 road cars with an average lap time of 6 minutes and it turned out to be unexpectedly balanced.
RWD Twin Mill 5:57 (a car that reaches ~ 400 kmh and handles like a boat)
RWD ACR Viper '08 5:57 (handling car)
RWD Mustang Deberti 5:57 (didn’t expect this at all because it feels so sluggish)
AWD Lambo Gallardo 5:57 (extremely easy to drive)
RWD Noble M600 5:58 (a top tier car on Goliath)
Even high-handling cars with zero top speed like the BAC Mono reach a 6:02. This track replaced Goliath because it accidentally turned out to be way more meaningful.
So im not only one how is thinking that s1 class feels pretty balanced. Im that bad driver that i made all cars awd and still most cars do pretty even when cars like ferrari 488, honda civic, bmw m5, honda nsx etc hits almost same lap times.
Given the right track it seems so. Of course there are cars which are better suited for certain tracks but since I accidentally build an extremely balanced track I can see which cars are truly powerful and which are bad.
Speaking of powerful my current leaderboard:
McLaren F1 RWD no-aero 5:51:0xx
McLaren F1 GT RWD rear-aero 5:51:9xx
2005 Ford GT RWD no-aero 5:52:3xx
As a regular Forza player those cars are no surprise. Always have been in the top spots. Have to still try some others of the “usual suspects” though.
Bad cars: KTM X-Bow, Lotus 3-Eleven, Jaguar F-Type. All around the 6:10-6:15 mark. Even an RWD-converted Hoonitruck was better with a 6:08.
I’m driving without assists. I guess it’s just a combination of throttle control (as I’m basically always prefer RWD I got used to it), manual shifting (avoiding low gears which would kill you) and diff setup.
Finally finished all S1 cars on my track today. Those include cars that are naturally in S1 or can be downgraded from S2. Didn’t bother with the unlimited amount of lower class cars upgraded on S1.
Top ten for people who are interested:
#1 Lamborghini Aventador LP750 SV AWD no-aero: 5:51:012 #2 McLaren F1 RWD no-aero: 5:51:046 #3 TVR Cerbera Speed 12 RWD no-aero: 5:51:754 #4 McLaren F1 GT RWD rear-aero: 5:51:922 #5 2005 Ford GT RWD no-aero: 5:52:422 #6 Ferrari F50 RWD no-aero Enzo swap: 5:53:122 #7 W Motors Lykan Hypersport RWD no-aero: 5:53:290 #8 Audi R8 V10 Plus AWD no-aero: 5:53:481 #9 Pagani Zonda C AWD rear-aero: 5:53:699 #10 Bentley Continental FE AWD no-aero: 5:54:024
#1 is actually the car I would recommend even if it wouldn’t be in the top spot. This car is undoubtly the easiest and fastest S1 allrounder. Insane grip, high cornering speeds and ~375kmh top speed. Only small downside is its acceleration out of slow speed corners because it’s a little bit too heavy. If I want to win S1 street and road races online this is my go-to car.
A close second would be the Audi R8 (the newer one). Less power but incredibly smooth.
The car with the highest potential is the Speed 12. Throttle control and manual shifting are mandatory. Otherwise it’s undrivable. It could break the 49s but it exceeds my skilllevel by far.
