No that’s not from the game, but it would be nice though.
I have plenty of friends who are at least 10-15 seconds slower than the top leaderboard times. Hell I’m in the top 1,000 and I’m 3-10 seconds off the pace depending on the track. Even when their using my tunes or one of the tunes from the top tuners they are still way off the pace. I always tell the ones who want to listen if your that far behind on the time the greatest tune in the world won’t do you any good if your overdriving the track. Having every assist turned on and then turning on the clutch because it’s faster won’t help either. Get in the car and drive! Practice practice and practice again! You have to step back for your own ego and watch what you are doing and what you are doing wrong. I have spent hours in private lobbies sitting at an apex watching and following them around one corner trying to get them to master that corner then the next. When they have done that now go string them all together and see where you get. Faster every time and as soon as they do it a few times they start getting a feel for what they were doing wrong.
I’m nowhere near the best driver and I still watch what the faster guys and gals are doing when I race with them.
Sorry for the little rant but like I said build or no build 20 seconds won’t be found just because your running with a clutch, flywheel, or cams instead of something else.
You raise perhaps the most important point of all. It’s also not just that you DO practice, but HOW you practice that’s important. Since you have to drive so many laps to tune (and consistent laps are important in order to see how changes in the setup affect times), it’s quite easy to fall into a rut of driving laps how you have learned to. Learning to drive laps also involves adapting to the car. It can be quite a challenge to break some of the habits you have developed in order to progress. Sometimes you have to break out of “consistent” mode and try new things. Watching others’ replays can help with this. It’s too bad much of the info is intentionally obfuscated. You can’t see their speed and gear for a given corner, for example, but you can see the line they chose.
So if not tire temp then how do you know when you have the right amount of camber. I know in real life you want about -.5 of camber while the tire is loaded, but here we are way beyond that point. Is it just best guess or what? I know if you go extreme you start loosing grip but without a way know if it’s camber, springs, or bars. Sorry if I’m making this complicated but in FM4 I know we just aimed for temps or -.1 camber when loaded.
This isn’t tuning a real life car, if it were and we drove them we’d all be dead.
Just like any of the others you tune one thing at a time. If you do camber, spring, and roll bars all in one go you’re never going to know what is what anyhow. When you do it and it goes slower you’ve done something wrong. People seem to make this way more difficult than it is. Be patient and learn it, Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Totally aware this isn’t the real word and I was just using it as an example!
Just looking for some clarity and helping myself and those who are new to tuning and reading this some insight.
I guess my approach when I begin tuning has been wrong or out of order. I begin setting the tire pressure, camber, springs, bump, brakes and diff baselines. I then drive the car for a few laps and start making adjustments to the springs, ARB, rebound, bump and diff one at a time of corse. Is this wrong should I not make any adjustments before I begin driving? What order should I begin making adjustments?
Tire pressure
Springs
ARB
Rebound/ bump
?. Camber
As I stated earlier without data or telemetry how will someone know if your using enough or too much camber, is it just best guess or a compromise?
I know when you reach the extremes too little or too much camber the car will begin sliding around but will you see the same affects when only being off by a few points?
I’m sorry if I’m over thinking this or making it more complicated than it really is, but I’m noticing the tuning in FM4 was quite a bit easier to achieve the correct settings. Before someone says it I know this isn’t FM4.
I base tune my cars but then I know where to start. Just decrease your springs from the start and have a look at some of the open source stuff for a starting point.
If there is 20 seconds you have to be building your cars inferior to others. If you want to post your car and build there are already a few people in here that can help you out by looking it over if you’d like.
Now, although untested, I feel as though my proposed method of building a car by taking one part and adding it to the car then running some laps and noting the times is a good way of building, methodical and data driven. It will get complicated when you get to Engine parts, springs, and swaps etc and even though it will take time I still think it will work, lap times don’t lie!
I want to start off in a methodical manner then by suggesting that Race tires are always going to give you a better lap than Sport tires if added as the first part from stock. The Race tires may be able to be dropped to sport later on in the build if we find we don’t need them so much but start off with Race tires.
NOTE: I personally think it’s important that if you intend on performing a drivetrain swap then you do this first instead of tires. I personally think Engines can be considered one HUGE engine power part and it makes sense to test these after the tires and so can be tested in the same way as an air filter essentially, just a lot more of the car changes but again, the lap times will help you build a picture and the car and you will see easily if the new engine benefits or not through those times!
I have plenty of theory for what comes after but without testing and getting some evidence I feel as though I should hold back a bit on my theories…
I do have one question though… Should you build on your additional engine parts last as many people do?
Even if I’m in the top 2500 there are 15 seconds between me and the top. While I’m sure that my builds are “inferior” to others’, I’m realizing that “good” builds are those that exploit the physics engine, rather than represent a realistic car setup. This is evidenced by the crazy camber settings improving handling, and by the obvious tilt toward certain cars in the leaderboards. I’m sure there are plenty of other settings that are counterintuitive. This means there’s no choice but to do the exhaustive trial and error for each component, or to get help from others who have already done it. This includes trying the whole range of settings, not just ones that “should” work. This no doubt also includes finding the line that best exploits (for lack of a better word) the physics engine and somewhat arbitrary track limits. I know, of course, that the Forza series has never been touted as a true sim, and that’s fine. I’ve had tons of fun playing it, and I’m well over 100 hours of play time (maybe closer to 150), and I’ve completed the career. I still have plenty of bonus races, and other challenges.
Thanks for the offer to help, and you all already have helped a great deal. I think I will just adjust my goals a bit and have fun. If leaderboards were really that important to me, I’d join the herd and grab the top cars, seek builds that are well established, and just keep practicing. Instead, I will just set them up the way I like them, and do the best I can. I’m quite satisfied with my progress in learning all the tracks, and my level of competitiveness.
Leaderboard or oddball the process is the same. What is this desire to feel superior for running an inferior car, and not being able to perform or compete to the best of your abilities. Driving against faster drivers in similar cars will teach you how to push the car. That in turn carries over to any car you choose to drive. No one gives you kudos for losing. Ask Peyton Manning.
In regards to the build there is a recipe to an extent. A track like Sebring or Road Atlanta, Silverstone National are tracks that would require less tire and more power. Shorter tighter tracks most likely would require more handling a maybe a race transmission to optimize gearing for best acceleration out of lower speed corners. The transmission choice for the most part will make or break a tune, and can be worth many seconds if you have one and don’t need it or you don’t and you do. So far in FM5 it seems cars below A class can make do on sport or less compound tires. Aero helps I know it isn’t always aesthetically pleasing but can definitely help your lap times.
If an upgrade lowers your PI it usually is a good way to go. Shaving PI points here and there can drastically allow you to better build your cars. If you’re stuck view the replay and see what that driver has done. You can see aero,tires,and roll cage.
Thanks great advice here. I think it would be very beneficial if we could come up with a list of things to evaluate when building…
Car
Weight
Distribution
Age and Model(Because a Ferrari will have better standard parts than a ford escort)
Nature(High Power, Medium Power Open wheel)
Track
Long Straights
High Speed corners
Tight tracks
Short straights
What class you running in Mozzer? Although I’m not a tuner as such really I’m a decent racer, top 100 in A Class and if it’s times you want then I can take your tunes and set some times of my own. I’ll tell you if its your driving or tune. If it’s your driving I’m happy to help you make that step forward ???
I like A, S, and R mostly. I currently have a bias toward the Ferraris, just cos I like them, and they’re a bit of a challenge, especially the 458. I run the 458 in A, the Enzo in S, and the LaFerrari in R. I suspect there are cars in the game that will never be at the top of the top, and that’s fine with me. It may be, however, that the reason for the apparent bias in leaderboards for certain cars is more about the high availability of the tunes for them. Could just be sort of an inertia thing.
Top 100, huh? That’s extremely impressive! Do you use a controller or a wheel? I might take you up on the offer to try my tunes. Might be pretty interesting, and I could learn a lot in the process. I’ll post one of my best here this evening when I get home from work. I’ll just do it “open source” since I don’t mind sharing it.
Thanks, I should still be able to put up a time no matter what class really. I use a controller(plenty top 100 and even top 10 do). Put it up or just share it and I’ll download it later. My Gamertag is my name here so add me.
I’ll be on this tonight then I’ll put up my time and place. I’ll try and feedback on the tune as well, more a case of describing the feel of the car to me though probably rather than where exactly might need improvement, if anywhere. I’m sure there’s going to be some significant differences between using controller and wheel as well but remember although it may seem harder the wheel has the advantage of smaller more accurate inputs in turning, meaning less wheel spin in turning(loss of time) and therefore more grip if you can get it right.
The 458 is an interesting example. It’s nearly undriveable out of the box. You can find many references to this on various forums, if you haven’t experienced yourself. This build makes it handle quite well, but still not the easiest in the game to drive. The biggest thing was uncontrollable braking and was extremely tail-happy. Those are largely tamed. It will still slide a bit but it’s much easier to control. I don’t use any assists, and it’s easy to tell when you need to counter to reel in a slide on exit. It also helps to use throttle to transfer weight to the rear as is the case in real life with RWD cars. I managed some additional improvement on my Spa laps with the same build. Now in the top 3000 (3900-something), and I think I can go further still.
I’ve tested the tune and I’ll start off with the times…
In 20 laps I got a 2.29.5 and that was 804th at the time on the LB. It’s the only real Time Attack I’ve run on that track so you can see the time there ATM. I will say that there were a few laps where I was around 1.5 seconds up on that time so there’s definitely a 2.28 in there somewhere and I would go as far to say a top 200 time could be set in that car if you could nail it, I’ll be trying to get top 200 at some point before I go on to set a time in a different car on Spa. Going back to what I said though about it being the first Time Attack I’ve run on that track, it actually brings me to a very important point because I’m sure I will very much beat that time in a different car… So are you trying to see how far up the leaderboard you can take that car particularly or are you seeing how far you can get up the leaderboard period?
Here are a couple of key things that I think you could do to generally get higher up the LB on any track.
Check out the top 100 and choose a car from that range to set your times.
Don’t be afraid to turn ABS and TCS on as they should only really be turned off through progression IMO. At least turn TCS on when Hotlapping. There’s no shame in it and if you haven’t tested how quick you are with them on then you really have to find out.
I’m sure that if you do those 2 things you will make a big leap up the leaderboard on any track.
The car itself was great, it handled well and I was able to control the long sweepers remarkably well with the throttle and it held full throttle without much understeer or spinning out great. My favourite aspect! In the slower corners it was great as well and again TCS really helps this car out.
All in all I like the build and tune because although I haven’t done it yet I can feel a faster time in the car, some cars you don’t and you feel you’ve maxed out the time. I personally don’t think it’s the tune I think it’s the car choice itself for that track. That could mean the build as well so I’ve got 3 things you could try on a rebuild.
1)Aero
2)Max Weight loss possible
3)Possibly 6 gears
Hope this was helpful. Send me a FR on Xbox live if you want me to help you with driving. The next time I run some laps I’ll save the video and share it for you to see how I did it at least. That might help. ???
Thanks a ton for checking out this build and tune! Yah, I saw your time on the LB for Spa and it was pretty impressive. It told me a few things: the car can do much better than I’m driving it, but it’s also one of the more challenging ones. You were one of only 2 in the top 1000. The other guy was around 500 and he may have had aero. Since I added you, you have been my default rival, so I was able to follow your ghost around the track. The places you really left me in the dust were the fast sweepers. I couldn’t see a huge difference in your line, but somehow you just carry a lot of speed through the faster corners. I was also able to watch your replay for the lap. Nice feature I stumbled into. It was one of the options while selecting you from the LB. I can tell you’re using a controller cos it’s sort of twitchy on the straights. The throttle seemed to come more in bursts, as well, compared to my laps with the wheel.
I saw that you used TCS and so I tried it, but it was actually harder for me to drive. I’m not sure why, but I found myself getting sideways on the fast corners with it. Guess I’d have to re-learn to drive with it on.
Yes, I considered grabbing a LB car, like the F-50, but I wanted to see how much car really matters. I was kind of annoyed that the 458 was so difficult to drive stock. Do you suppose they did that on purpose for some reason? You can be sure it’s not so unstable in real life, even without TCS, which most people will use even on the track. I think I will try to get in the top 1000 with this car, then select one from the top 100. If I do it now, I won’t have rivals to chase with the 458. Actually, you can select any car from the LB as a rival, but I’d have to scroll through to find one near me. The sorting for “near me” is based on my best, so if I’ve done a lot better with another car I’ll have to scroll.
Anyway, I really appreciate you taking the time to try the build. It’s made things really fun and interesting for me, and given me some great info for moving forward. It also tells me I’m at least in the ball park with my tuning.
The next time I run some laps I’ll save the video and share it for you to see how I did it at least. That might help. ???