Seriously, has anyone at PG ever built an engine? Been to a dyno to see a built one run? A 401 AMC engine can produce far more HP than this game’s version in the Javelin. Doesn’t even crack 500 hp with full upgrades, unless you add forced induction.
Stop forcing people into engine swaps, please!
Sadly, most people don’t open hood. Ever.
American motors means nothing as a brand.
Built 401 or other NA motors in game can be made to pull far more than allowed.
Haven’t looked but 8 for 8 swaps ok. 10/12 no.
Stupid centrifugal blowers best of adds too, huge diameter rear wheels. Bizarre stuff.
The Gremlin in FH4 was really good for me.
In this game - it has that awesome V8 roar - with no power at all to back it up.
Sad . . .
According to Motor Trend (which I would consider a rather reliable source) the AMC 401 is going to max out at about 500hp. This they say is a mild street built motor. And reading through their build, it is a rather mild build with a single 4bbl, a mild cam, and stock heads with a little flow and value work. Which they achieved and I would agree the build was a rather mild street engine. This engine topped out at 484hp. Rather respectful for a mild built street engine which could easily fair as a daily driver.
Build note; I did not change the block configuration because I wanted to keep the engine displacement at the original 401ci/6.6l
So, to the PGG build. I built the engine for my Javelin using only the street parts or sport parts if there were no street parts offered.
The resulting mild street built PGG engine only indicated a wimpy 394hp. Not getting anywhere close to a mild street built engine.
So let’s look at a full race build according to PGG. In full race build the PGG engine peaks at 465hp. Still falling short of the 484hp of the Motor Trend engine.
Now this being a full race build I would expect a few givens. I would of course have to have a roller lifter cam, (MT was flat tappers). The induction would, as shown, have to be a dual quad tunnel ram setup, (MT was a single quad flat plane). Heads would have to be aftermarket with full flow and value work, (MT was stock heads).
With these additional givens on top of the engine work of the MT engine, the real engine should have a figure closer to 700 to 800 horsepower. Now in real life, the question would be about how long the engine would last at these figures.
But that’s not the issue in a video game. The issue is, the engine build structure is way off in this game. It always has been, and it probably always will be. So go ahead, swap in the 6.2l fragermeter manufacturing V8, or the 6.7l Catermackapiler GM diesel. It all doesn’t matter, it’s just a game. Have fun!
I will not LS swap every muscle car in game to make them competitive, that is sad. When you swap to that 6.2 V-8 there is a weight difference that changes the dynamics of the car (how it handles, it’s balance so to speak). If they decide to bring in the 1st gen Firebird that we got in FH4 I’m pretty sure it will be the same.
Why would you when there is usually a diesel available? I’ve ALWAYS wanted to swap a diesel engine into a really cool muscle car. Been a dream of mine ever since…
Is this a trick question?
I wonder sometimes if they’ve even ever built an engine in one of the forza games. Any game.
This isn’t the only one tho really is it there’s cars like the Nissan GTR that tops out at 1000ish bhp but everyone knows over 2000 is easily achievable same for Lamborghini v12 turbo set ups. I feel all Japanese cars are nerfed in every way but glad the RB now gets to 100bhp now instead of the usual 700 in previous titles
Muscle cars are hardly the only ones suffering from this issue. I can kind of forgive them for this one. When I think about it, knowing, understanding, and implementing correct changes for every single upgrade on every single engine in this game is a monumental task. It likely would become an issue like: “we can have accurate upgrades, but it will significantly slow down our car addition pipeline” or something to that effect.
It is undeniably annoying, and they do seem to have favourites (like the Supra RZ), but at the end of the day I find it a somewhat understandable situation. I can see this being a situation where AI could step in, in the future. Just dump a bunch of data on it and let the AI figure out what upgrade does what. That would provide reasonable accuracy with minimal impact on the production pipeline (once the AI is trained).
For now I keep my muscle cars near stock. Classic muscle mostly sticks to C and B class, with the occasional model going into A. My favourite so far is my B class 65 mustang, though my recent c class Barracuda has surprised me with how much I enjoy it.
I wonder sometimes if they’ve ever played Forza.
Are you sure every engine can do it? Do you think every 1998 Supra can get over 1000hp? If you want to see 2ZJ3D2ZZz explode 1998 Supra is your best bet.
While I agree, I do believe that the “1000 hp on stock internals” has become a meme at this point. Same with the RB26. They speak of “forged rods and crank” like no other engine has ever had them before. I have seen a number of stock engines strip head bolts clean off, never mind most of those engines came stock at roughly 10.5:1 compression which is a no go once you go past the stock boost levels.
It’s not stock internals in this game it’s the stock block.
Half the engine upgrades available in game are internals not that any upgrades are realistic in this game
No, they’re just screwed up totally. I ran through the 65 Mustang. It’s base is a 289. If you do a full race upgrade which appears to include a dual quad tunnel ram. Without upgrading the block. You max out at about 350hp. That figure alone is so far off base it’s laughable. But then if you do nothing more to the motor than just upgrade the block to race. It goes to a 5.8l displacement basically a 351 Windsor. But the horsepower only jumps up to 390hp. A 351 Windsor full race prepared engine with dual quad is going to bring close 600hp to the track maybe 700+hp.
These engine algorithms are so screwed.
Motor Trend builds a 351 Windsor with a single 4bbl to 505hp. If PGG would just do a little googling they would find out just how far off they are. And we now know it would only take just a few seasons for them to implement changes. They’ve shown their hand this season.
Oh yeah…
Talk about shortchanging an engine, 650 cfm? Not even a stroker. Quite the mild build for that engine.
Speaking of custom blocks, I would like to see some actual custom blocks from Brodix, Keith Black, Donovan, Bill Mitchel, Nelson Racing Engines, etc.
Yeah but don’t forget licensing issues people, licensing issues🤣
Actual parts would be cool. Don’t forget about Milodon HEMI blocks! They’ve got the “Licensing” 
from Chrysler for the original HEMI.