My cars are underpowered? With full weight reduction and rally tires you’d be hard pressed to get anything more out if it. Likewise with the 360CS. Did you forget what we’re talking about? So even if I did get more HP out of it, my times of 1:15 would improve… putting it ahead of anything else.
Ok How about my Miura… AWD 897HP on it with rally tires and full weight reduction. 2,596lbs. Tell me that’s not a leaderboard champ right there. I just bought this bad boy and tuning and painting as we speak.
And I’m more than an OK driver… yet some people are a little too good or try extra hard I think.
Let’s talk Power to Weight Ratio because that’s what its all about and I’m glad I have the Miura in the mix to see where it all stacks up.
GTO
0.1867924528
360CS
0.1900884956
Miura
0.3455315871
RJ Pro
0.3349863625
So either my GTO & 360CS are in fact underpowered or the other 2 are vastly overpowered for its class. Leaning towards the later and no wonder its posting the fastest time.
The best drivers will either choose the best cars or try and be heroes running oddballs.
But on the main map it is quite clear to see what is quick and in most cases (in FH3 which is the critical element here) the more powerful vehicles are on top even though they have to carry more weight to fit under the pi.
Just saw your latest post - about 14 hours ago is when I was running these times and I was chasing your Aston. It got through the ice to the final stretch and headed towards the line but seemed to slow down a lot on a part of the track where there was no explanation to slow down. It was not where you need to slow down to make sure you have a clean run early on the next lap it was before then. There was nothing to hit and nothing that should slow you down, unless it was in a race and you had to avoid traffic.
It matters not though. If the masses choose a Rally Fighter or the Truck to top the leaderboards then that is enough for me.
I am confident that if I decide to do some leaderboard runs I will not be jumping in a GTO or Miura but will go for the massive power of the Fighter or Truck. I may try to use some form of rally car for fun but at this point in S1 that is likely to be the Lancia S4 Group B.
There are times when I drive what I want to drive and others when I choose what I think will give me the best chance to top boards. I know without a shadow of doubt that on a good portion of tracks the trucks are the way to go in S1 to get quickest times.
hmm why is the GT Four not in your list of power/weight ratios?
Is it because it has the best power/weight ratios of the lot but is still not the quickest? 0.349. It was quick I will not deny that and I was toying between running it for many laps versus the truck. I even did run the GT Four again.
Reason why I bailed was because it did not push through the snow that well, the truck did.
In any form of racing and racing games there are 3 factors at play:
Car needs to handle well. (reduce weight)
Car needs to accelerate well. (improve power/weight ratio)
Car needs to be fast enough. (increase power)
In the real world and in games there is a sweet spot. Adding more power increases top speed. Adding weight decreases acceleration and hinders handling (with caveats).
So there is a point above which adding power and weight will not result in improved laptimes. The sweet spot in FH3 is either at the very top end of power or even off the charts and in my opinion it is due to how much grip this games physics engine provides.
If I decide to run this leaderboard some more I may need to try different things. I doubt though that the best power / weight ratio will cut it but that the 1200+ hp will.
EDIT: this thread is bizarre. Its like racing car driver xyz getting an F1 superlicense and asking which team they should join in order to win the championship. The advice given is Mercedes have a vacant seat take that, they have won the last few years. But the drive says no I will choose Sauber instead.
SatNight I had not read your post yet… I’ll have to get to it a bit later. Briefly though, idk where you’re seeing my Aston because my best rival time is with another car… regardless I think my best time was not slowing down to take the sharp turn at the start. I mean you have to slow down there quite a bit or you will hit something and get flagged.
There’s no conspiracy here, why don’t you run my tunes and see what you get. I’ll bet you anything they all come within a second of each other. But I wouldn’t trust what you say at this point since you seem hellbent on winning a (losing) argument… it has now turned into what car is the best on the rivals board. If I wanted to know to know what car is best for the rivals board I would have asked and you’d say the RJ Pro… answer: because it’s overpowered.
So what if I left the GT Four off, I forgot. .349 is such a negligible difference. Your time with it was identical to the RJ Pro. Don’t give me BS
Kudos to knowing the most overpowered vehicles in the game and giving me their times. /Golf clap
And what makes you think the best power to weight ratio will not be the best car? Just curious. There’s no coincidence that the 1200HP is probably the best Power to Weight anyway? Funny you should say it like that as if all that matters is the 1200HP
I have not begun to test all cars, not even close. But this thread is starting to tie in with another post I have going and that one is entitled “cars you’d like to see perform better” and at the same time cars you think are overpowered. It’s clear to me the power to weight ratio of cars in this game varies wildly and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in the name of balancing a game. So there are better cars than others as we all know. Just now picked up a 99 Lancer Evo. 711HP at 2,558lbs. Similar build as my other cars. Have no doubt it will do better on this track. It’s not rocket science.
But even if my GTO is underpowered what makes it such a great car is I can go full throttle at most all times… any deceleration I need comes from the turn itself… and if I need slightly more I’ll tap the ebrake. It is SO easy to drive and thus get a good lap the first time. By contrast driving the GT Four was a pain and took 7 laps to post a competitive time.
And again I want to reiterate my point with this entire thread, drivers skill identical, I know that on a technical course a lighter rally car should be superior to your average HP monster. And that the majority of courses in RL and this game are technical. If you totally disagree then so be it.
This whole thread amuses me because I’m not even that competitive. I just know what I’m talking about
For you to be right you just need to delete FH3 and replace it with FH2 or real life. ie what you say did work a lot in FH2 and it works in real life.
Once we start talking about FH3 you don’t know what you are talking about.
Technical/non technical - call them what you like. The leaderboards tell me that on most of the courses heavy, high power cars are doing better than light, low power cars.
I refuse to use other people’s tunes. Why? Because I have tried and I find them incredibly frustrating. 1. They often have wasted pi. 2. Not many people tune cars to turn how I like them to.
So I am the one trying to win a losing argument when the leaderboards back up what I have been saying.
SMH
Why is the RJ Pro overpowered? Answer because it has so much power. Why can it have so much power in S1? Answer: because its heavy.
Yep. The game is lacking in the technical course sector. Even layouts that look technical can be easily run in low grip high acceleration monsters which was a rude awakening to me.
But hey, we have another case of someone refusing to adapt. Happens in ever forza.
You can get 900hp in the 288 with 2 tire upgrades in S1. It grips really good with this build. It’ll probably be better on street courses with 1 tire upgrade and max power.
You can get over 600hp with rally tires in S1.
The cars starting weight is 3100lbs which isn’t bad at all.
So yea your 288 can be better. Its underpowered because of build choices.
I should have answered this as follows and not said anything else:
Because on the majority of leaderboards in FH3 the quickest cars are very high power and sometimes need to carry extra weight to fit the pi structure. To varying degrees this applies to all track types.
I know what I can get out of the GTO. You didn’t use weight reduction.
Alright so the fact I’d be right about FH2 and the Real world and maybe H3 is not like that… I’ll take that as a half win for now and we can go with that because I’d have to do some more runs. I’m optimistic that I can put up some good times with my rally cars. I want to finish BM and have a couple cars I want to paint now
Weight reduction is too expensive PI wise. It was like around 20-30pi hit which was too much for the car. So it’s an unwise upgrade for the car because there’s not enough PI to spare. If you knew you could fit more power without losing any tangible handling/acceleration loss, then why use weight reduction?
Yes your comments are mostly accurate for FM6 too though there are track and car exceptions I’ve found. The grip levels in this game (especially with awd swap) makes it to where logically based builds aren’t good enough. You can get away with lower tire upgrades (or none) and stupid power numbers. How you build a leaderboard car/truck in this game is the same as any other car if you want to make it fast. No promises the car will be fun though.
Having done a lot of campaign now and quite a bit of online here are my go to cars:
A class
Lambo LM002
Nissan Truck
S1 class
Pro Truck
Lancia S4 (nice to drive but underpowered)
The heavier, more powerful vehicles are not that hard to drive that you need to run 10 laps to get a decent time, they do just fine online and campaign.
If I knew I could be quicker in a lightweight, rally car trust me I would be there.
And I will continue adding intercoolers and oil because in this game they can improve performance.
So what conclusion can we draw from those stats alone?
The game is penalising handling (weight) more than power.
Sure the logic is worse power weight ratio but better handling.
The issue is what if us human video game players can handle the 3,000lb just as well as the 2,600lb?
To be honest laptimes did not change much but to really test it would need both builds run at a few different tracks to see if one of them is consistently quicker than the other.
But remember the original points were “weight reduction is always better” v “no sometimes carrying the extra weight and power is”. It is about whether hard and fast rules have a place or not. My opinion - they do not. Light works sometimes, heavy works others. I know from my testing that sometimes adding intercooler and oil improves laptimes (in FH3) even though it adds weight.
Actually… the last thing I’d want to say and it’s quite obvious, you get your validation of what type of car is best from rivals leaderboards. I don’t know why I glazed over that fact. all things considered and mentioned I think that is nonsense. So we are taking about two different definitions of what is better. Yours is fastest car / best time on rivals board no matter how many times it took… that is the only idea in your head and is what you use to disagree with me. I’ve already proven those cars are overpowered so the results of rivals are skewed. If I or someone else were to start smashing times with a car that has an equal PTW ratio as your RJ Pro, but far lighter such as a Miura, you would have nothing to go on… your argument would fall apart completely. And the way I see it that is very likely. excuse me if I don’t pay much attention to rivals boards. I made the mistake of asking for your best times in whatever car you want.
But really man I don’t care that much to sit here and debate it endlessly. I just needed to make that last point.
You started a thread asking why ignore weight reduction.
Answer it allows more power which results in quicker laptimes in FH3.
How can you view that? Leaderboards.
Now if i have a 3 lap race online or campaign will i run the heaviest, most powerful car? No, not always.
But that does not mean i will use a lightweight rally car.
What i use will still be more powerful and heavier than what i would have used in FH2 because this games pi system and grip levels still means that power is king.
Remember i am answering in the context of the FH3 pi system and grip levels and not what makes sense in the real world nor FH2.
I noticed power pi is super cheap on a heavy car. Tires are cheaper too. So much so that you can easily compensate for the weight penalty on a lot of cars. Compare a fully built GT car with a light weight track toy in the same class and you will see it. Better yet, build them yourself and be amazed at how cheap power is on a heavy car’s pi score in this game. Or how expensive it is on a light one.
The heavy gt car might struggle to keep up on the tightest closed circuits, but it will decimate the track toy anywhere else.
It’s just how the rules of FH3 are.
Go back to FM6 or wait for FM7 if you want light cars to be fast again.
I kind of like it in some ways, would never touch most of the heavy GT cars otherwise, while they are often a joy to drive.
Sorry if I came off a little overweening before. And not to beat a dead horse but I’m still interested in this topic and I’ve only started doing Rivals on the main map in the last week or so… with the goal of posting the fastest time for a specific’ car. I guess thats what makes it fun for me… not just picking a Bugatti. I’ve posted top 25 times quite a few times already and generally have come in the top 250 with underpowered cars… Just so you know I’m a good driver, tuner, and fairly competent. Don’t comment on any of that my question is this
Do you agree Rolling Meadows Circuit is a fairly Neutral course that in context of this discussion power vrs handling, doesn’t favor one type of car build over another? A simple yes will do. If no tell me why. And give an example of a Neutral course
I would note Blizzard Mountain is not ideal… too many other factors at play
Since no one wants to reply right now The answer is yes. If anything it favors power.
Rolling Meadows -
I took 3 cars and ran 15 laps each to genuinely try and improve my overall time.
Same tires and tire width for both. All builds rated 900. Only thing changed is weight swapped for HP.
McLaren 570s
733HP
2,647
57.791
951HP
3,166
58.592
288GTO
611HP
2,508
58.025
784HP
3,043
58.689
Italia
677HP
2,868
58.304
874HP
3,500
59.602
I found out later I could cut the trees at top and convinced that’s how people are posting faster times with same car. And I’m running auto too. But that’s besides the point… The point is more HP at the cost of weight did not improve times and has significantly worse handling. And this is pretty typical. Sprint races and long straights street races are the only exception (obviously)
So any supporter of the idea that HP at the cost of weight is better you would need to give specific examples where and make sure you know what you’re talking about that anyone agrees the course does not favor one type of car over another.
I’m open to being proven wrong. I’m not here to argue the topic for nothing. I just want facts for the sake of having facts.
By your guys argument, more HP at the cost of weight/handling will be faster. That’s what your saying. And don’t tell me that’s not what your saying because it’s already been said. The truth is no matter how good you are you can’t do anything about having to brake longer and harder and take turns more gingerly with more weight. That’s where you lose the same amount of time you gained in the straights.