I would like to point something out… Car weight, tire width, tire compound, tire pressure, spring ratio, ARB stiffness, simulation ON/OFF, etc… Does not effect tire temperature, it will idle at 210 on a straight and fall a bit, but it will be anywhere from 211 to 220 in corners and then quickly back to 210 degrees on the straight.
Now there is change in feel with settings obviously.
I have noticed this too; outside of locking the tyres or getting power oversteer my tyre temps rarely move from 210-215 regardless of how I tune.
My tire temperature will change more when I increase or decrease pressure but I haven’t noticed that big of a change with springs and ARBs. My temps are usually low 200s or higher 190s. But a question I have is Worm said the tire pressure should be between 30 and 35 psi when warm, But i usually find my tires at a lower pressure when warm like 29 or 30. And i set my tire pressure to around 26 or 26.5. But it seems i get the most grip with this lower pressure, or am I to low and need to change spring or damping settings?
That is the range I have seen for sport and race tires. I would need to double check, but if memory serves, normal tires run at 170 and street tires at 190 degrees F.
Also, temps and pressures appear to stabilize quickly, often by the end of the first lap, but it really takes about 5 minutes for them to start feeling like they have full grip.
Higher pressure = Lower temperature
Lower pressure = Higher temperature
This has me confused shouldn’t higher pressure result in higher temperature, and Lower pressure result in Lower temperature? Or am I missing something?
Nope. I’ll try to explain.
Softer tires gives you a bigger tire patch which means more friction.
Parts of the guide date to FM3 and FM4 where this mattered more. Regardless, the issue is that some may remember the opposite from a fading part of their education. In school, we learned that all other things being equal, reducing pressure by reducing the mass of a gas in a container will result in lowering the temperature of the remaining gas.
The huge difference with tires is that all other things are not equal. They are flexible containers being rubbed against pavement. The sidewalls are constantly being flexed, and a lower pressure tire has more sidewall flex. As Clutch noted, a lower pressure tire also has a larger contact patch which increases friction of the tire against the road. This additional flex and friction create heat much greater than any cooling expected from an ideal static situation. Long story short, it works as described in the guide, but it is less noticeable as implemented in FM5 and FM6.
I was following the description in forza 6, I could of swore it said int he short paragraph that gives you a hint about tuning that if you increase your tire pressure would increase your tire temperature and increase oversteer.
It’s the other way around. It says that as the tire heats up, the pressure will increase. If this topic’s guide were tailored a bit more for FM6, it would get closer by saying that low pressure tires heat faster rather than more. Regardless of initial pressure, each FM6 tire type seems to eventually heat to its own equilibrium temperature. For example, race tires heat to about 210 degrees F. Sport tires should be similar, and normal and street tires will be lower.
The pressure at this temperature will vary based on initial cold-tire pressure. The tuner’s goal is to get this final pressure to the point that provides best grip. The consensus view is that this is somewhere in the low 30’s PSI, so the initial pressure will often be in the 28 to 30 PSI range. Based on the various tuning posts, you may find other tuners that prefer lower pressures.
Whats going on is that Forza 6 added much wider tire upgrades available.
Tire width however is less PI efficient than compound.
But in A and S class, many cars need the extra grip even at inefficient PI. So you end up with these super wide tires on circuits. Thus the ridiculously low PSI some people run to get the most grip. The caveat to this is that some people are putting super low pressures on skinny tires out of habit.
It’s actually the more flexing of the sidewall that increases temperature much more than the contact patch but still the same result.
Species 9, go get a sp00n and bend it back and forth. How hot does it get? That is what the sidewalls on the tires do when you drive.
Now do it with a knife that isn’t so easy to bend, less heat huh?
Oh I see what your saying now. I must have been doing it backwards. I thought the more tire pressure I added the hotter my tire would run.
I think I missed something. Is there a section for tuning the gears?
I’m seeing very little physics-based discussion on these forums since the game has launched. Other than a thread about tuning calculators and another about camber there hasn’t been much discussion at all about the most effective tuning philosophies for Forza Motorsport 6.
Has the game already been “figured out”? Is it simply an updated physics model from Forza Motorsport 5, and the conclusions from back then still apply? Is it simply the fact that the forums aren’t as active as they were in years past? Who knows.
I’m seeing very little theory discussion about the game anywhere (compared to several threads on other forums for Gran Turismo 6, some of which are still active) so I’m curious.
hi great write up, i have a slight issue with some cars i tune where they dont feel connected to the road, i have tried really soft springs and im using the damper ranges as per the guide, the cars turn in fairly quick times but dont feel right to me
i mainly race b class, any advice would be appreciated, thanks
I’m finding the majority of the few tunes ive done work best with higher spring rates than what I’m used to since FM4, also high 20’s on the ARBs, low bump between 1-3.5 and high rebound 8.5-10. I’m still learning, there’s things I don’t fully understand like the diff settings, that’s more trial and error for me.
I’m not understanding these adjustments
Adjustments Decrease Understeer Decrease Oversteer
Front Wheel Camber More Negative More Positive
Rear Wheel Camber More Positive More Negative
Front Wheel Caster More Positive More Negative
Rear ARB soften = decrease oversteer or increase understeer
Rear ARB stiffen = decrease understeer or increase oversteer
Just noticing this from a while back. It’s supposed to be a table, but the forum formatting makes it hard to read. It is saying this:
Front Wheel Camber: Make it more negative to decrease understeer OR more positive to decrease oversteer
Rear Wheel Camber: Make it more positive to decrease understeer OR more negative to decrease oversteer
Caster: Increase to decrease understeer OR decrease to decrease oversteer
Note that these are subtle effects, and the settings are better for maintaining the quality of the contact patches and steering responsiveness than trying to directly correct oversteer or understeer.
The rear ARB notes should be easier to interpret, but here and anywhere dealing with ARB, springs, or damping, increasing the rear tends to shift away from understeer and toward oversteer while decreasing the rear shifts away from oversteer and toward understeer. The opposite is true for the front: increases shift toward understeer, and decreases shift toward oversteer. Along with springs and damping, ARBs are better suited to help with understeer & oversteer than camber and caster.
With FM6 the warm tire pressure is key when evaluating telemetry data. Moreover the best way to know your pressure is right for the car is how it behaves during a turn. If you stick a turn during lap 1-2 but skid and loose grip as if the tred is magically worn off in lap 3 and later (sometimes lap 1 sticks and lap 2 plus skids). You need to reduce the pressure.
When tire pressure is to high they will loose grip and skid/slide when fully warmed up. When tire pressure is to low it will cause unpredictable grip during turns which can result in sometimes drastic fluctuations of grip.
Best thing to do is keep aware of how fast you can take a turn between laps 1-3, if you seem to loose grip then lower pressure. Avoid lowering the pressure after you reach a sweet spot when you have consistant cornering grip from about lap 2 and above. Any lowering of pressure will be a waste and risk unpredictable cornering. Your troubleshooting best friend is the tire pressure telemetry data. You want tire pressure on turns to be even between your tire sets, straights data is only useful when drag racing.
what about in drifting???have excellent setup for FM4…but the damn thing wont work on FM6