Nobody was pointing anybody east in this thread. We were sharing advice with someone who sought it. It’s getting tiresome seeing so many threads like this shut down with a ‘my way or the highway’ attitude. Experimenting and trying different approaches is what makes tuning fun in the game. There actually isn’t just one right way to do it, and you can arrive at a fast car in more than one way. How do you think people discovered that camber could run much higher in FM5 (and I’m pretty sure I was one of the first to pick up on this)? People were trying different things - departing from the orthodoxy. Short version, there’s a right way and a wrong way to contribute to a discussion thread. Being angry Moses isn’t the right way. Nobody has given any bad advice in so far, and nobody has yet managed to give all the advice that is relevant. Letting it run on isn’t sowing misinformation and encouraging bad ideas or practice - as has been claimed at times in the past. Letting it run is inviting discussion and helping others learn - not just by formula, but through debate.
Mick, what you posted was wrong.
I’ll say it once. Pick a car, pick a class, pick a track. We can let whomever drive it. Put it up there since there is no one way, see if your way is anywhere close? In fact, do you even tune cars? I’ve never seen one release from you that I can remember in 6 years.
No One is shutting the thread down Mick.
Both yourself and Rosny pointed the poor bloke east.
Johnson sent him west. Worm posted what needed to be done. Like zeroing out the toe and raising the diff. The opposite of what was suggested.
Theres many people here who dont want to post cause we just get argued with, You know better. These little things are the difference between a #1 car and a top 500 car. I suggest you go tune that number 1 car with your settings, cause apparently its easy and we are all wrong.
And while Im here, the OP should lower his caster.
lol where did I say anybody was right or wrong? Where did I say I was a better tuner than anyone else? Also, what settings? I was just providing suggestions, not a build or tune. You could pretty much flip what you are saying on its head. If the tuning old guard don’t want to post because they get argued with, how do you think the new guard feel? Anyway, this seems to be getting a bit elevated for my laid back tastes. I agree about the caster.
I got a chance to try out some of the advice in this thread. I have to admit I am surprised to see grip seeming to get better as I raise my camber. I inched my way upto -3.0/-3.0 and it seems to be sticking a little nicer Also dropping my rear ARB 0.3 at a time seemed to settled down the back end of the car I’m currently at 13.9/13.1 ARB. Upping rear spring helped the turn in a bit without losing the benefit of the ARB. Also zeroed out the toe which seemed to settle thing down. Might try for some toe in… Going to 10.5 rebound and 2.0 bump seemed to help, crazy but then this is a causal sim not iRacing…
30% accel seems to help, though I might go even to 35% to get a little more rotation. Definitely it is an easier car to drive now, and I got a hot lap of 1:31.426 with these changes! Near 2 seconds shaved an’t too shabby. Thanks everybody to chiming in. Mick you were right about the ARB’s the rear was too hard for my set up, just a bit. Worm you are totally right about the camber and dampers, thanks a bunch everybody who chimed in. I seem to be about right going in, and just a touch loose going out of a turn. I’ll fiddle around some more, but for now, saving this setup so I don’t lose it.
As for the growing discussion building, I’m going to side with Worm at least mostly. There is definitely going to be a right tunes for each car. Like with my super high torque camaro is not going to like <20% accel. Some settings no matter how much people love them, are simply not going to work out/be slower than others. Though I feel there is a good deal of room to wiggle around and adapt to preferences.
This was the OP answer,
This was his answer to my post :
I’m running normal steering, I’m not gonna try sim steering without a wheel controller. At the very least I want to learn sim steering with a much more stable car. As for driving technique, no doubt I could always use improvements there, but hopefully I know at least as much as a mildly experienced racer? Not to say I’m right but I have been playing these kinda games for 10 years. I would like to focus on tuning so I can be feathering the throttle out of a turn, not just maintaining my speed all the way until the car is completely straight again and then accelerating, which is about all my tuning attempts have managed. Its not that I’m mashing the trigger every exit, but rather I can’t get the car to behave predictably so I can manage it. Not to mention what always kill me is when I get mid-exit snap oversteer. It will set fine at the apex and start accelerating, and about half way to the end of turn it will shoot out on me, I really want to learn what steps master that little misbehavior.
Also it really didn’t seem to be planting because I would be getting terrible accel out of the corner when it was rumbling. I also mentioned I already tried lowering my Accel settings. Below about 18% or so I was getting the inside rear completely breaking loose and jumping to “orange” temperatures exiting a turn.
For my post, it seems he followed my advice to reverse the arb’s wich seems to have helped him counter snap oversteer.
We won t discuss the normal-simulation thing since it was already discussed and put aside.
I offered him to lower the deccel, and to be honest, it was more of a preference thing that i wanted him to try and i know it has nothing to do with the problems he needed to be corrected. My bad. ( i m not afraid to admit i was wrong 
)
Due to the weight of the car, i would have personnaly went for a stiffer springs value and a stiffer bump value with softer rebound in order to have the car sit on the dampers ( i hope you can see what i m trying to explain here) with a no aero car, i usually end up,with stiffer bump and low rebound because i don t have the aero to settle the car down.
We all know that aero can mask wrong suspension tuning. I m no master of no aero cars, but i know the difference between mechanical grip and grip achieved with aero. Wich in imo, you should have a good mix of both in order to get the best grip out of the car without slowing the car down.
Now, we don t know the driving style of the OP. Does he prefer a tight car, can he handle a car that will have some lateral roll, wich would feel like a bit of the BAM way.
I m happy that the OP tried your suggestion, and let be honest here, its one of the easiest way to do it. Soft springs, high rebound and low bump, lets not talk about fine tuning and camber since it wasn t mentionned by me. The only thing i did was to mentionned a few ideas that might have helped him to reach his goal. I should have explained more my way since it is a more complex way of getting what you re looking for in a car. I like to complicate things and go outside of the box when tuning a car. Testing different ways is what makes tuning fun for me.
The way you are tuning is very fine, i do it myself but i also use different approach when tuning different type of car. Its the way that you present your way that i find a bit aggressive and i understand that you are tired of always repeating yourself to people who gives wrong advice. No offence to anyone here.
Tuning imo, is like martial arts, multiple styles with multiple ways of practicing it. My goal is not to get the faster car out there, i know i can do it, but as you mentionned, a lot of the lb cars are undriveable for the average drivers. What i do like is to get a car that can be driveable for anyone and that they can be faster with it by having no difficulties driving them.
I understand that you also had the opportunity to try the game before many of us, you are in front of us for some knowledge about the physics and the tuning glitches there is in the game. Since you are a well known tuner, why didn t you posted some general info about what you knew. Every new tuner is looking up to you it might have helped cleaning up some of the mess around some beliefs about tuning. I m not saying telling us your little secrets but at least inform the general population of what is good in your tuning guide.
As one of the most recognize tuner of this place and community and also acting as a mod, it is your responsibility to be an example and to be seen like a teacher around here. If you are getting frustrated with some threads about tuning, we won t talk about the obvious stupid ones here, maybe its time that you take a step back and re evaluate if you re still doing it for the fun of it.
As a great philosoph said once, with great powers comes great responsibilities. And it is just a damn video game
@ Worm - Maybe rather than simply stating that what I posted ‘was wrong’ and inviting me to a breast-beating tune-off, you’d like to point out where my advice was either incorrect or inappropriate?
You are right that I have never ‘released’ a tune to the TM. That doesn’t mean that I haven’t spent hundreds of hours tuning across both FM4 and FM5. I have toyed with the idea of listing my existing tunes as a garage entry, but I’m too lazy to act on it and not arrogant enough to believe in self promotion. Like everyone who tunes, I’m learning all the time and always think my earlier tunes are rubbish. I confess I haven’t driven many of your tunes in FM5, in fact the only one that I remember clearly is the CRX. I tried that around Yas North and found that it overheated the front tyres after five laps, so I built my own instead. I did drive a Spark of yours in FM4 which I thought was pretty hot though. Have you ever driven any of mine? There’s a bunch of them lost in the wilds of the sharefront or whatever it is called these days.
In any case, I think you’re missing my point. A lot of people are loathe to post into help threads such as this for fear of having their ideas dismissed or ridiculed. It’s possible to have an authoritative voice in these discussions without intimidating others. If the tone of my previous post seems … I don’t know, harsh or aggressive, that isn’t actually the way I was feeling when I wrote it. I’ve just seen this smack down process repeated in thread after thread. There is always room for many voices … right or wrong?
While I’m all for the free speech, everybody has a right to add their 2 cents movement. I have a hard time explaining sometimes how and why I do what I do. So rather confuse someone, I leave it to those who can better explain.
I’m also of the opinion that if the person giving advice isn’t able to/or not very good at tuning and driving, they may want to take a backseat and learn from others that can. Criticism even if asked for doesn’t go down well on these forums. It’s best to avoid those situations altogether.
Some of us don’t have a lot of spare time so posting something “wrong” can waste that person’s time.
Further, while you may get to a good tune multiple ways, the builds and settings will fall within a general range. That range is “conventional” fast set ups may vary by a few clicks here and there. But they will fall within the “conventional” range. It is near impossible to impart all the knowledge of tuning in text on a forum, we all try to help the best we can. But wrong is wrong.
Mick, I have a single question for you.
If you were in a party with TPR zermatt, daveyskills, chronic, whoever, and they told you what you are doing is wrong, are you going to listen? or tell them there is more then one way to achieve something?
I shut up when I was told what to do with the Mini…lol
Yeah but you like that type of abuse.
More than one way.
I’d be running a recorder. What has that got to do with this discussion?
