How can Forza 6 be Graphically improved?

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport
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Terms like " pre baked cake fakery" give the impression that you’re trying to knock FM/T10 and blow smoke up PC/SM for the sake of it. In fact going back to post #66 FM and AC both look a lot more realistic than PC and GT. PC shows block shadowing with defined edges like there’s an office block trackside rather than a stand of trees.

Anyway, in a practical sense there appears to be so little graphical difference regardless of how environments are generated. I’m sure that using T10s favoured technique any time of day or night could be created. The limiting factor would be races that were long enough to experience changing light conditions such as dawn or dusk. Rain shouldn’t be prohibitively difficult using this technique either - shadows are much reduced and would in some cases need to be replaced by some degree of surface reflection but a lot could still be “pre baked” (to coin an unfortunate phrase). At the end of the day the XB is what it is. Not the most powerful hardware on the planet but good enough to run a darn good game if it’s well coded and takes advantage of any techniques that remove overhead with little or no detriment to visuals.

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Not trying to blow smoke up anyone. If you followed the through pcars thread in general gaming you would see Ive said things werent going to be all that on the xbox, and that its not a forza killer etc.
Sure I said it in jest to Wotan as hes willing to overlook ones technical achievements vs another and not draw fair comparisons where due.

Again, the only point of that image was to demonstrate T10 get their lighting wrong in cases. Not that one is better than any other. Hell I deliberately posted PC shots of pcars jokingly saying if he didnt want a fair comparison.

You guys cant have your cake and eat it to, unfortunately doesnt work like that.

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Any time of day yes, if memory doesnt fail me Hockenheim on Forza 4 had two different time settings. I always wondered why they didnt use this much more. My guess is time-constraints, rendering lightmaps can take quite a while, and you have to re-render when you change the geometry.
(in case of Forza 5 there are some spots where you can see Turn10 didn`t get to rerender after changes)

Night times might be tricky though, because the car`s headlights come into play, which would be a task for dynamic lighting.
I think to a certain degree you can mix systems or fake some stuff there, but I am not sure how convincing the results could be.

QFT, if that`s the right internet term :wink:

Its a bit irritating to argue with someone who insists on 2+2=5, spins stuff around, evades, and refers to calling everyone else clueless. Obviously its a lost cause, so I`ll just say my piece about the posted screenshots for the “web history”.

The Prague shot with the cars was obviously picked with great care, it has probably the most ambiguous lighting you could find.
Its very hard to figure the exact sun position, as none of the objects (houses) casting shadows is even visible in the image, they are somewhere towards the viewer, as is the sun. Still, the car in front has a clear shadow running over it, which is actually surprisingly well lined up with the shadow from the rooftops. The shadow on the road is prerendered, the shadow on the car is realtime ... if it wasnt realtime it would stick in the exact same position forever.
Car-to-road shadows are basicly invisible on this screenshot due to the camera position, but we all know they move and change around the cars properly.

The environments comparison …what did that have to do with anything? Not a single post here claimed the environments were lit realtime, the whole discussion is about cars.
Wotan already covered almost everything else there is to say about it.
The sun is where Turn10 placed it, based on reality or design choice. It says nothing about lighting itself.

K, hope this thread recovers back to it`s original purpose soon.

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You can fake a lot of things, hell you can go as far as to prebake a dynamic global illumination effect in a room/hallway/building if you wanted to.

I agree its annoying to discuss something when people dont see it/cant see/dont want to see. Amazing right. I havent evaded anything, I havent twisted anything. But hey, all of you can keep on piling on if you like.

Again, the sun is in the wrong geographical positioning. The shadows naturally dont come towards the camera like in the FM shot, but go across the track. If you want to “compare” improvements that could be made “graphically”. One of the “minor” features of pcars is that the sun is always geographically correct, same with sunset, sunrise, depending on the time of year you choose. Not a big deal, but could be an improvement seeing as its “wrong”. Everyone else can get it right.

Without environment, you have no lighting. I dont understand why this is so hard to grasp.
From Watons own image.

1920×1080 455 KB

Wheres the audi’s reflection? It can reflect the buildings metres away but not a car 3 feet directly parallel? mmmmm, cubemaps.

Anyway, its time I go and let you all bask in the wonderful GIL and ray tracing these machines can do, discuss the wonders of what will never be

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The shadows are right, because they fall behind the cars. The sun comes not from the camera. I’ve posted another shot to prove where the sun is located. Based from your (mine) photo the sun is right of the camera and directly shines towards the street.

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There has to be a language barrier here… you can’t keep track.

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When you see GT6’s lighting it looks so realistic compared to Forza’s 5 which should not be the case given Forza was on much better hardware.

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Never use GT as a good example of anything, I used to own it for every moment it looks real there are 10 it looks horrendous. That track is excellent, but other ones (bathurst for example with it’s flickering back ground trees that I originally thought were buildings as the tend to look like cubes from a distance) are plain awful. The lighting is like the rest of the game, inconsistent and until patched half finished, remember playing an early version before patching going up a hill in the dark would lead to total darkness as the headlamp beams disappeared under the road…

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Do you still have an Xbox/Forza ?

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Sold it recently to fund a cockpit and steering wheel, However will be buying back the Xbone once Tomb Raider or Forza arrives which ever comes first.

Not sure what that has to do with an opinion on games lighting though?

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Well if your xboxless and forzaless, I really dont see why people should be subject to your winging and negativity on this forum.

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[Mod edit - WSD - trolling]

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Enjoy the playstation forums im sure they will be overjoyed to have you

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This is a lot of time and effort to spend flinging insults comparing a console-exclusive launch game and a just-released game that needs a powerful PC to match the 60FPS performance of said console-exclusive launch game, all in anticipation of ANOTHER game with no public knowledge of what its graphics engine will be capable of.

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The graphics don’t “need to” be improved, nor do they ‘have to’. Forza 5 looks great and it is on par with the best out there currently. BUT, in my opinion, they shouldn’t be satisfied with being on par. They should always strive to improve, to be the best available. I would like to see the racing views continue to be closer to reality. While we can stop the action and take some photographs that even a good eye can confuse for real, while driving it still looks like a video game. Before anyone criticizes my opinion (as stupid as criticizing another’s opinion may be…), I think the game looks stellar, but there’s always room for improvement. I’m longing for the day when it’s nearly impossible to discern the game from reality. I believe Turn 10 is on the right track.

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Agreed, very much.
If Forza 6 would look like Forza 5, just with some better Anti Aliasing, I wouldn`t shed a tear.
But I think most of us, me included, always hope for more, for the little extra from Turn10.
One way or the other I am sure we will see nice improvements, either directly in graphics or on the visual features side. Turn10 always seem to aim high, but with realistic targets.

Toying with the though of day/night/weather at 60fps, I changed my mind towards a (very small) sliver of hope.
Maybe it might work in a more controlled setup (compared to PCars), like never mixing night with rainy weather, or keeping car counts low when needed.
Then again, personally I dont care for any of it, I just want the tracks at variable day times for visual change. I am just really curious to see which way Turn10 go with it. Guess we will know soon enough, E3 isnt that far away. :slight_smile:

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They don’t need to be improved but they should be because there is quite a bit of room for improvement. I agree with DUST2DEATH on the shadows and the positioning of the sun though I don’t think that’s a huge problem. I also think that a day, night cycle may need dynamic lighting and that may make the shadow casting more realistic, though again you hardly notice it. Also I think dynamic lighting would mean that the sun would have to be in one place.

All they need to do to make the graphics better is to make the lighting, reflections and shadow castings more realistic and I don’t think thats unreasonable. Even if they increase everything by a fraction of a percent it will make the game a lot better. I have to admit I think the lighting, shadows and reflections in the game are a little below standard for turn 10’s usual high standards. Forza horizon 2 was better in most of these departments. Maybe they can take afew ideas from horizon 2 and implement them into forza 6.

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How to improve graphics:

  • 1.2 million polys per car
  • Real time gi and dynamic lighting
  • 16x AA
  • 600 million FPS

Just kidding. Personally I think FM just needs night racing, as it stands it looks great already. Since FM5s introduction of PBR I don’t see night races being too expensive, just may need some artistic license.

If anyone can get the most out of the xb1 it’s T10. This is where years of experience with the platform and a purpose built engine can shine. Looking forward to seeing what they reveal at E3.

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Graphically I don’t think a huge amount needs to be done, it’s more a case of getting more content at a similar high standard. I agree real time lighting would be nice but how often does it affect anything? It would be nice not to be always blinded by the sun at a specific stretch of a specific track. Rain and Night would be nice as well they have them in horizon I’m hoping they can leverage the fact FM only has to render a small area rather than an open world to bring that in. Otherwise we’re at the point where you have to zoom right in to see any graphical oddness anyway or draw lines on stationary pictures.

One thing I would like to see is all the displays in the cars showing something rather than some. I own a Mazda 3 so I’ll use that as my example. In that car the boost gauge and fuel gauge/odometer all work. But inside the cowl the right of the wheel (and modelled in forza as you can see them in direct sunlight) is a trip display and stereo/ventilation display which are always on when the car is on but blank in forza. I ALWAYS play dash view so it’s a little annoying and easily fixed by swapping in a generic little texture if the engine is running. I’m not saying I want real time data but just something there.

Could also do the same for ingame sat nav screens etc alot of which give the impression of looking at a dead plastic model of a car.