Yes you have the option to not have them install the parts, but you don’t have the option to not pay for the parts they give you which is absurd.
4 Likes
Please remove homologation or at least add an option to disable it in singleplayer career mode and restrict cars based on PI index so that those of us who don’t want to race online can enjoy the game the way we want to and have always done. It is too limiting and makes many cars practically impossible to tune.
Have a seperate set of leaderboards for non-homologated cars that uses the PI index, with all of the original leaderboard sorting options and everyone will be happy.
4 Likes
In principle homologation is potentially the best feature to be introduced to the series. For years people have complained about the mad imbalance of the starting grids. Bringing the specification of cars eligible to enter a race much closer together is long overdue. However, rather than introduce a feature that enables closer racing, the guys at T10 have allowed this feature to dominate everything. We are now a little too restricted and as a result, upgrading and tuning have taken a back seat.
All we need really is the ability to open up the homologation to allow a broader range of upgrades and cars from more than one division to compete. Even the old class system would work well with homologation if done properly and I can see no reason for the class system to vanish.
3 Likes
What I wanted (and expected them to do) was something like this.
Let’s take muscle cars:
Division 1: up to, say, 350 bhp
Division 2: up to 450 bhp
Division 3: up to 600 bhp
And so on.
Because right now we have categories akin to Forza 6 and Horizon 3 and homologation is not very compatible with that. What’s the point of separating the Monaro and the Challenger from the other pony cars? Why make the HSV GTS and Falcon not be able to race the M5, E63S and similar cars and force them into the M4, Giulia, C63S division instead? Why put the Alpine A110 into Showroom Rally when it was originally designed to race against cars such as the Lotus Elan?
That’s without mentioning the range of cars nearly maxed out in their divisions with very limited upgrading capability. The Buick GNX and the 2003 BMW M5 cannot have all of the adjustable parts fitted to them at all, no matter how much weight you add, because Race suspension and brakes add too much PI. This puts them at a disadvantage, especially when you consider the M5 is near the limit of power for its division, cannot have fatter tires fitted to it, and cannot drop any weight, lest you break the rules. I think even aero doesn’t lower their PI enough to give you room for those parts. This was done because Turn 10 probably wanted us to use the Sport or even Street parts instead, but all the best tunes use Race parts so these cars end up uncompetitive by default (even though the M5 has a really high top speed).
I would also like to see combined lobbies with two or more divisions. There are some cool fights you can have (Classic Street Muscle vs Sport Compact Icons, Sport Touring vs Sport Coupe, and so on).
1 Like
There’s no reason I can see that homologation couldn’t be used to make for very diverse but relatively well matched grids. The problem isn’t with homologation as such, it’s when homologation is used in conjunction with division.
We should be able to use homologation on its own and open up races across two or more divisions.
Max BHP
Engine Position
Min/Max weight
Driven wheels
Max tire width
Max tire compound
Min/Max PI
Etc is all we really need.
I’m not fond of restricting races to a division and then applying homologation on top. We should still be able to make the trade off between handling and power as we always have.
1 Like
The divisions work akin to touring car racing, so, for example, in 90s BTCC it had to be four-door family cars for example.
However, some of the divisions in the game are unnecessarily diverse, which creates balancing issues.
To me the homologation is good for a simple reason: standard tire compound. Otherwise people just put fat Race tires, drop all the weight they can, and call it a day.
Actually, it happens in the homologation as well, which is a flaw in the core system of Forza. Turn 10 claims the PI is decided by an automatic system that runs the car throught a fictional track based on all of the tracks in the game, which takes into account everything from Catalunya School to Le Mans Old Mulsanne. In the career mode the homologation is restricted to six tracks at most. It’s easy to see power builds will be at a disadvantage when the cars are never run at Le Mans or Monza GP Alt due to not being feasible to ask people to race Bugs and Minis at Le Mans.
If it does stay, we need to be able to homologate into multiple division. A 2005 WRX can be Sport Compact Icon, Showroom Rally, Sport Touring Icon and even Sport GT Icon all at once.
If they nail the balance correctly, you can add whatever restrictions you wish and they’ll work as the PI system is clever, just not its implementation.
Another thing I don’t like about class-based is racing Formula 1 cars, prototypes, etc., alongside road cars. This is borderline NFS-style arcade and ruins racing due to the large disparity between power-to-weight ratio. It’s best to let 60s F1 race amongst themselves only, IMO.
1 Like
People put on race tires and weight reduction because that’s what the PI system rewards. All the homologation/division restrictions do is try to hide that by limiting what cars you can race at one time.
Part of the time I dont mind, classic F1, Indy cars, Mercedes trucks, they should have their division but many of the divisions are too narrow and homologation ( really it’s spec, not homologation ) makes it too restrictive.
3 Likes
Some simply have to be spec. Indycars, F1, Classic F1 (Formula 90’s) and a few others should be spec because there’s no upgrades to do to them. I would actually prefer more spec or should I say instead more tailored divisions. For example, I don’t consider the McLaren P1 GTR, Ferrari FXXK, Pagani Zonda R, Koenigsegg One:1 and a few others under “Hypercars”. They should either have there own divisions or put them under “Megacars”.
I’m loving the current balance and frequency of division rotation within the standard multiplayer menu. A request I would make at thiis point is to expand the selection of endurance hoppers. Forza GT is a fantastic, well balanced division and I think it needs to be a permanent fixture, but there are many other divisions that would be great to have included every now and then.
It’s kind of sad. For YEARS I’ve been hoping that Forza will come to the PC. Hoping hoping hoping hoping. Then they announced that all of the games their studio will release will be playable on both Xbox and Windows. Oh, how I cheered, my dreams are finally coming true… I followed Forza Motorsport 7, excited to finally have it on my PC… And I skipped buying it. Why? This homologation BS… Honestly, if I cannot tune the car the way I want it, the game isn’t worth playing. That was the thing I loved about the other Forza games I’ve played on my friends’ Xbox’s, trying to find a way to tune a car that stays within the class but will have an advantage based on the style of driving I do… Getting rid of bonuses for turning off assists is dumb as well, this whole random bonus loot box crap is amazingly stupid. So I’m sad that it’s technically on the PC but lacks a lot of what I have been waiting for to come to the PC… Maybe Forza 8 might be better? Who knows. Hopefully…
1 Like
Well I thought this too, but pulled the trigger at half price. I reckon I may find some bits of interest, and the class based hot-lapping, allowing tuning and upgrades, is coming soon… apparently !
May not be as good as FM3 and 4, but makes a change from all my other driving sims. Don’t forget, games like PC and AC, may be proper sims, but OMG they are so dull ! Zero upgrades, overly complicated tuning, zero gameplay/career… zero fun. Unless you drive online in a league, these sims are not great. I am hoping FM7, with all its bad points, MAY inject a bit more fun into my driving game world.
To be honest, my favourite game at the moment is ETS2 ! Chillax … 
1 Like
I quite like the homologation system. Maybe that’s partly because I’m new to Forza with FM7, I don’t know…
I don’t really understand the “I can’t build my cars the way I want”-like comments.
Of course compared to the class system, with the homologation system there are some additional restrictions (tire compound, tire width, power), but how is that a major issue?
I think a lot of confusion comes from the fact that when you buy/win a new car, it comes already optimized for its division, with some default homologation parts already fitted; and the game doesn’t make it easy to understand that you can absolutely revert the car back to stock and then choose your very own upgrades (within the homologation restrictions, of course).
To do that, you have to go to “Tuning & upgrades”, then choose “Homologate car”, then select “Install stock parts”. Now you can go to the “Upgrade shop” and upgrade the car the way you want (within the homologation restrictions). Not a very intuitive process, I agree…
For example, the '91 BMW M3 is homologated B525, but if you revert it to stock, its stock PI is D374. That’s plenty of room to upgrade for the homologation: 151 points available to spend on whatever upgrades you want (within the restrictions of tire compound, tire width, and power).
Of course the homologation system doesn’t allow V8-swapped Mini’s racing against Ferrari’s. But I quite like racing exclusively against vehicles of the same “category”. Upgrading a Mini or a 2CV to go and race against GT’s can seem fun at first, but IMO it gets old quite fast. IMO a lot of hate against the homologation system also comes from resistance to change in this regard.
I also think that if Turn 10 want FM7 to be taken seriously as an esport platform, then the homologation system makes more sense than the class system. This is probably one of the main reasons behind their idea to implement the homologation system in FM7. (Obviously, besides homologation, there are other aspects they would need to improve/change in order to be taken seriously as an esport platform, but that’s for another topic).
5 Likes
It’s worth pointing out that Turn 10 put lots of cars like Skyline GT-R, Nissan 300ZX, Honda NSX, etc. in Sport GT Icons and made the restrictions Sport tires and plenty of horsepower. All of the aforementioned cars have much room for upgrades, and they’re not the only popular ones.
Nissan 370Z is in Sport Coupe, with restrictions as A675, Sport tires, 550 bhp. You can drop its weight to Race and still add some good power and fat tires to it. And it’s the best car in its class (not sure if it still is with the Z4M released but still).
Most Honda Civics are C-class. Historically in Forza, the Civic has been a mainstay of C and B-class.
Bugatti Chiron requires restrictor plate to run in Hypercar division, but it also allows you to drop much weight and add Race tires. It accelerates just as fast, and handles much better.
My complaints are as follows:
- Hot Rod Revival: Plymouth Fury is severely restricted
- Rebirth of Muscle: Buick GNX barely has room for any handling upgrades and Mustang II should’ve been in Vintage Sport Compact
- Early Sport Luxury: BMW M5 E39 must be raced almost stock
- Sport Touring: Camaro ZL1 must be raced almost stock, BMW M4 GTS should’ve been in Sport GT, Aston Vantage should’ve been in Sport Coupe or Sport GT
- Sport GT: Noble M600 is extremely limited even with the restrictor plate
- Sport Compact Icons: Mazda RX-7 FD3S and Mitsubishi GTO could’ve been put in Sport GT Icons instead
- Rise of the Supercar: BMW M1 should’ve been in Sport GT Icons
- Sport GT Icons: Ferrari 288 GTO should’ve been in Rise of the Supercar
- Sport Coupe: Both Jags should’ve been in Sport GT
- Supercar Renaissance: Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione should’ve been in Sport GT
- Exotic GT: Both Audi R8s should’ve been in Sport GT
- Showroom Rally: Alpine A110 should’ve been in Vintage Sport Compact
- Classic Street Muscle: Dodge Challenger and both Holden Monaros should’ve been in Historic Road Racing
- Historic Road Racing: Dodge Charger R/T should’ve been in Classic Street Muscle, both Corvettes in Vintage Sport GT
- Vintage Sport Coupe: Porsche 911 Carrera RS should’ve been in Vintage Sport GT
- Vintage Sport Compact: Ford Capri RS3100 should’ve been in Vintage Sport Coupe
- Modern Hot Hatches: 2018 Civic Type-R and Focus RS require heavy power restriction to fit in
- Sport Luxury: Maserati GranTurismo and Ferrari California should’ve been in Sport Coupe
- Lotus Eleven should’ve been in Forza Specials
- Most of Forza GT, GT Racing Reborn and Early Prototype Racing do not come with stock Race brakes which makes it impossible to add them and retain stock look
2 Likes
I rather like the homologation system for series races I run with several groups. It does tend to keep the cars in line with BOP. But there are a few cars I just like to take out into Freeplay and try to set up a certain type of race and it just limits how you can set it up. Like the Aston Martin 77 Vantage I have tuned for A class just handles and drives so much better than homologated build, but I can’t set up a race against other 77 Vantages with similar build in Freeplay. So yeah it has its pros and cons depending on what type of racing you are doing.
1 Like
should be able to race against upgraded cars in same class. say upgraded exotic gt against other upgraded exotic gt’s. Not against R or P or whatever said upgrades put you against.
I like the system. 
I just find it not to be fun with homo its takes away from the game to me. Not saying all cars should be together in some class like beetle running with lambo just let us use the upgrades that are available for that car in that class id like options
1 Like
I’ve said it time and again. The system is very flawed and it pretty much contradicts the true spirit of what Forza is. The main problems:
-
it is not optional when it should be
-
Divisions are way too narrow. Some cars feel almost as if forced into certain divisions by either adding restrictor plates (completely unrealistic) others are fitted with too much power, killing the essence of that car (a 500hp 300zx… why?). There should be at least three tiers on each division.
Bottom line: Make it OPTIONAL. Options a good in videogames. Trying to make an already unrealistic game (racing street cars) “realistic” does not work. If you want to force it on online then by all means. Don’t ruin the experience of some to satisfy the experience of others. There are ways of giving everyone what they want. It is as simple as this showing in your menu:
“Homologation: ON/OFF (note: this option works only on Single Player Career and Free Play. It won’t affect any online portion of the game and your car will automatically be homolagated if you choose to participate in these events).”
See, how simple it is T10? Everyone is happy at the flick of a switch.
5 Likes
Actually, your points are excellent. I imagine they should’ve made the open events in career truly “open”.
They realize this, which is why we’re seeing class racing in Leagues now. Technically, it’s not too late to change, but I think that the career rewards will be among the unlocked cars, giving less incentive to play through the career, which is probably not the right course of action. We fought hard to win those cars, especially stuff like the Ford GTLM and the 2015 Porsche 919.
As for multi-stage divisions, your idea would make the system really great. I mean, remember how in rallying there was Group N, Group A and Group B? It’s the same spirit. A muscle car division could have had the C500 limit we have right now and, say, an A650 limit for Pro Touring or something like that. Same with Sport Compact Icons.
The ability to homologate into multiple divisions is something that would complement the multiple stages. After experimenting with this game a bit, I’m fully convinced that the homologation makes things not as lopsided, but the true core of Forza Motorsport’s balance remains the PI system, which means you could technically have a car run in multiple divisions and be competitive in each. It’s possible to test it by taking a car, fitting it into the rules of another divisions than the one it belongs to, and running with the other cars. There are quite a few cars in this game that were placed in awkward divisions to give them more variety in manufacturers, even though it’d make more sense to put them in different ones.
Unfortunately, I must disagree when it comes to letting players customize the entirety of the career mode. The Forza Drivers’ Cup as it is poses a challenge to players because it forces them out of their comfort zones. Perhaps we could have a blueprint feature for the open events, but the homologated ones don’t pose a problem, as the goal of this game is to prove your mettle by mastering many different classes of cars, much like in the GRID franchise. All I ask for, is for the buggy events to be scrapped, haha.
1 Like