The way to handle this fairly would have been to leave it as it is, anyone finding the General Lee offensive and labelling it as a support of slavery is making an issue where there isn’t one.
We’ll never know but what are the motivations behind this? Has somebody or several people complained to PG? Or is this just some bizarre unprovoked effort at PR that will do nothing except make the company drop in it’s most loyal players’ estimations?
It’s a car game, removing iconic designs for them that people will have worked hard on perfecting helps nobody.
Perhaps this should tell people the audience the Horizon franchise is aiming towards now, were it mainly for car people this wouldn’t be happening, car people see the design and think of the car itself or memories of seeing said car on TV, in books/magazines or if very fortunate in real life, they don’t think of racism and slavery because it’s nothing to do with the car, never has been and never will.
IMO the biggest issue is that the flag was appropriated by a racist organization in the 1950s but the main reason people know of it today were cars from old TV shows which obviously didn’t wave the flag with racist intent. In The Dukes of Hazzard (and Smokey and the Bandit), the Confederate flag is indeed used as a symbol of heritage, not hate, and is appreciated for the same reason Burt Reynolds was: an icon of rural America.
If we’re going to ban the rising sun flag, which is still used by the JMSDF who works with the US Navy, then we should ban the PRC Chinese flag. They have over 3 million people in concentration camps as we speak, all because of their ethnicity and religion. If T-10 is going to go down this road, then we need to make sure that modern Nazis are banned from the platform as well.
The Japanese government’s position on Rising Sun is “no problem”.
Ministry of foreign affairs of Japan OFFICIAL PDF(ENGLISH)
U.S. government investigations have found no evidence of Japan wrongdoing.
Turn 10, Xbox, Microsoft banned Rising Sun based on inaccurate information We will be contacting Microsoft Japan to discuss this matter. This decision has led some companies to believe that they should not provide cars to Forza, like Toyota, and I think it’s coming.
You’re mixing country flags with the flag of a failed secession from the United States. Country flags are symbolic of the country itself, learning and growing despite past mistakes. The confederate flag is a flag used by racist to show that they supported the movement of the south during civil war(which was fought because of slavery). Yeah, the general lee uses it, who cares? The show itself may not be racist, that’s not the topic, the flag however is a symbol of racism and suppression.
Why support racist losers? The flag itself is still being used by completely far right racist groups such as the modern KKK and the Proud Boys.
I don’t know about America, but I’ve certainly seen the UK flag being flown at numerous Anti-BLM marches and protests in this country. It’s also often touted during actions standing against immigration. Does that mean it’s now a racially insensitive flag? I’ll be honest, I don’t see the difference from where I’m standing.
Some of the flags mentioned are representative of countries but the confederate flag only represents traitors who wanted to keep slaves. Regardless of where else it was used, that’s what it represents. It’s obvious it shouldn’t be in the game. My problem is with the implementation of the rule. As I said earlier, not everyone is going to see the forum or twitter post, some people just play the game. You can’t implement a rule against something that already exists in the game and immediately ban people for it without adequate warning through in game messages.
If you’re going to ban this flag, get rid of the '69 charger as well. No point in banning the flag on this car cause absolutely NO ONE hates the General Lee. No it wasn’t a car promoting hatred, it was an icon of a show. Just now learning about this is one of the biggest reasons (besides the last 6-8 series trials/season races that were total garbage, not a single good race besides the B Class offroad trials race which was the special division “Heavy Hitters”. And YOU EVEN GOT THAT WRONG by including the 1931 Bentley 8-Liter but you COULDN’T SELECT IT FOR THE RACE!! EVEN THOUGH ITS RIGHT THERE WHEN YOU CLICK “VIEW CARS” IN THE CUSTOM RACE SCREEN!! ) why the Forza franchise is falling apart. You’re a game company. Your say has almost no use to racial problems and the fact that you thought “holding an update due to this” was even a fathomable idea means you get paid too much money for the job you do. Make better series races, don’t get involved with something you can’t help.
Anyone who has a problem with this can message me directly.
Abolition of slavery, whether in America or any other country with African slavery bar Haiti, was not really about giving black people freedom, it was because slavery was expensive to capitalist entrepeneurs and black people who earned wages could buy and own products, advancing the market and profits.
It was significant that the capitalist side won, which made matters easier, but the fight for equal civil rights is a fight the black person has had to fight for themself, mostly. The North won, but was also segregated.
If you’re going to ban this flag, get rid of the '69 charger as well. No point in banning the flag on this car cause absolutely NO ONE hates the General Lee. No it wasn’t a car promoting hatred, it was an icon of a show.
Just now learning about this is one of the biggest reasons (besides the last 6-8 series trials/season races that were total garbage, not a single good race besides the B Class offroad trials race which was the special division “Heavy Hitters”. And YOU EVEN GET THAT WRONG by including the 1931 Bentley 8-Liter but you COULDN’T SELECT IT FOR THE RACE!! EVEN THOUGH ITS RIGHT THERE WHEN YOU CLICK “VIEW CARS” IN THE CUSTOM RACE SCREEN!! ) why the Forza franchise is falling apart.
You’re a game company. Your say has almost no use to racial problems and the fact that you thought “holding an update due to this” was even a fathomable idea means you get paid too much money for the job you do. Make better series races, don’t get involved with something you can’t help.
Anyone who has a problem with this can message me directly.
Slavery was never really abolished, just renamed and repackaged. People still do the same work the slaves did, but now it’s called a ‘job’ instead. The capitalists figured out that workers who think they’re free are less likely to cause trouble and are more productive. But it’s all semantics. Unless you can choose to get up in the morning each day and do whatever you want, rather than going to work for a master, you aren’t really any freer than a literal slave, you’re just working for a different boss / the bank / your landlord or whomever.
Working conditions very akin to literal slavery exist in various developing countries right now today. The people who build our electronic gadgets or make our clothes for example. In the UK we have multi-millionaire footballers virtue signalling for BLM while they will soon be happy to go and play in the World Cup in football stadiums built by virtual slave labourers from poor third world countries, many of whom died during the construction. There is a lot of double standards and hypocrisy in this world. It is time to live in the present and stop demonising our ancestors.
“Enslave a man’s body, and his mind shall revolt; enslave a man’s mind, and his body shall naturally follow.” (Laureano de Torres y Ayala, Grandmaster Templar of the Spanish West Indies, Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag)
To be fair, the General Lee has been (imo unfairly) targeted long before Forza Horizon 4 even came out. In 2015, the show was pulled from TV Land. Then Warner Brothers stopped licensing the production of toy General Lees. Next, CBS pulled the show from their lineup. Now Amazon is considering pulling the show from its library. And of course, we have Forza coming after all in-game General Lees. Yes, I said all. If you think a General Lee based car is safe if it doesn’t have the flag, think again.
Even the actors themselves, Ben Jones and John Schneider, agree with the stance most people in this thread are holding. The flag is not the focal point of the car. The show does not promote racism and segregation. Schneider describes the show pulling and General Lee targeting as throwing the “baby out with the bathwater”.
Nonetheless, Turn 10 making an exception seems unlikely, and many permissible paints are now in violation of the rules. The best they can do is to gave a grace period for all the paints to be removed without any penalty and to give ample warning in-game. As someone pointed out, the game should point out which paint(s) are offensive so that players can get that much needed heads up to protect their account.
Sadly, the General Lee has yee’d its last haw, and has become an unfortunate victim of woke and cancel culture.
The issue with the Bentley was if you reduced its weight too much, it no longer qualified as a Heavy Hitter.
That got me in the beginning as well because I was excited to run it. But then experimenting, I found the balance point of what kept it a Heavy Hitter. Forget what it is now, but I ran it a number of times. Have a good tune for it and it ran the event very well.
But back to the Charger issue. I agree with you regarding the symbolism of the car. The car, just like any number of movie and television cars, is its own appeal. It sidesteps the arenas that may surround it. The game also has an entire section of James Bond cars and yet is anyone questioning the views and treatment of women in those movies? So are we glorifying that? No, we just like the cars.