I tried your tune at Sebrinf Short and gave it short test run to get a feel. And I could instantly feel what you mean by taking corners faster, especially noticeable on turn 1.
I then tuned the Cougar my style, these are the settings:
Tires: 28.0/28.0
Camber: -1.3-1.1/-0.4
Toe: 0.0/-0.2
Caster: 7.0
ARBs: 24.19/17.56
Springs: 794.7/401.9
Ride Height: 6.6/6.6
Rebound: 7.2/6.6
Bump: 5.0/4.6
Aero: 75/137
Diff: 66% 35%
I did a 10 lap test run with both setups on Sebring Short. With your setup I was able to drive a 1.26.45, with mine a 1.26.25.
I’m pretty sure when hot lapping you can run with both setups similar times, maybe even faster ones with yours.
But for consistency I liked mine better, I had 3 1.26.2x in my test run while with yours just one 1.26.4x. Especially the last turn is more difficult with yours, at least with my driving style.
It could really be that for your driving style it’s the other way around and that you are faster and more consistent with yours.
Maybe in the end it really comes down to driving style so there is really no right or wrong, just different.
Still IMHO the proof that “mega” camber is not the only way to be fast.
UPDATE: Made a mistake with front camber, should be -1.1, is even better, I ran 1.25.9
It’s definitely driver style in this case. There’s a certain feel I need to get the most out of a car. I’m very aggressive with my line choice and I need a car that can handle it. If I gave this car to one of my friends, he would take out some of the turn-in ability via ARBs/springs but increase camber to -3s to match the 73 Trans Am builds. If I gave it to another he would love it and put down some rediculous lap time.
All I would say is if you’re running a car that’s less than 3,000lbs or has stock tires, try mega camber after the car is done. There are exceptions like every Lexus, 77 trans am, Pontiac GTO, unicorn Aston Martin, and 240sx but cars like 550, 97 civic, and Lotus elan go from lifeless turds (that are still fast) to rockets (that are untouchable).
The cougar is an oddity. It didn’t need mega camber or high camber but I tried it after everything else was done and it was faster. Usually muscle cars are well into the -3s.
I can tell you right now, that Cosmo setup is way off. It couldn’t compete with the mega camber tune. I remember running it and the (at the time) #1 tune and it was night and day.
I tuned it on Indy GP but in lobbies I’ve liked it at road atlanta, road america, Sebring (including rain), Prague short, one of the Yas tracks that favors acceleration (can’t remember which layout) and Prague full. I can’t recall if I raced it on other tracks yet.
I will. I haven’t hotlapped the car at Sebring but I know it’s pretty quick from hopper races.
I probably won’t try it until sometime later this week. I will be competing in both ESL tournaments and the car used this week is probably my best shot of cracking the top 128.
I started to mess around with tuning since Forza 4 and i also race primarily in B class.
This guide is 90% of the way i tune with some very slight variations.
For me setting overall damping is to ensure grip and stability for road types undulations and maintaining grip on kerbs and at the crest of hills. After that … I adjust front and rear bump/rebound to adjust oversteer or understeer corner entry/exit tendencies.
Damping for me separates a good tune from a great tune. Ridiculous amounts of time can be gained from working kerbs and if your car cannot handle kerbs (either flying off the high kerbs or slipping off the rumble strips) you are losing seconds on some tracks.
I will use Diff accell for adjusting how much power is put down to ensure optimum traction for corner exit and I will use decel for obtaining the most optimum corner entry speed in slow corners and for ensuring that the vehicle predictably corrects its tracking if I lift or bleed a little speed if my car is understeering a little when I am aiming for the apex in the corner.
I do not use accell to help power my way around a corner (post apex) in an understeering car. That to me indicates a poorly tuned car. I want to confidently get the car to the apex and start unwinding the steering lock (without much correction) and applying as much power as possible without losing precious tenths from wheelspin at every single corner. The tenths people lose at corner exit from every corner massively adds up over the length of the entire track.
But if the way you tune those components works for you then I have no problem with that.
To be honest I don’t tune specifically for kerbs, from my experience kerbs are usually on places where you don’t accelerate really (corner entry, apex, corner exit), if you have to accelerate there on occasion of course you have to be gentle but most of the times it comes down to able to coast over them without hassle. A lot of people also claim that a reasonably high ride height is also important for running kerbs, I personally don’t have that experience either as most of the time I run minimum ride height without problems.
I do agree that damping separates a good from a great tune though. The main difference between us is that you obviously tune specifically for tracks while I always aim for a general purpose tune and I’ve yet to see a track specific tune that is faster than my general purpose approach.
You say: choose the right damping for the track (and car)
I say: choose the right damping for the car no matter what track
Again I don’t believe in track specific tunes, only in track specific builds.
Diff
My main observation is that the relation between accel and decel together with the dampers and alignment (mainly caster) define the cars corner entry and exit behaviour. So whenever you change accel or decel you will change corner entry and exit behaviour as well. While it is common sense that the decel mainly affects corner entry changing the accel also affects corner entry subtlety as raising the accel will create a little more corner entry resistance (understeer) while lowering accel will decrease corner entry resistance (oversteer).
Also optimum corner exit traction is influenced by other factors such as rear bump and rear spring rate. From my experience you can run all of the cars with surprisingly similar Diff that only varies slightly around the 70/35 mark. If you experience on-throttle oversteer on corner exit then the Diff is most probably not the problem. And sometimes if the car is really high powered you just have to be gently on the throttle, if you lower accel (or rear bump / springs) you will create other problems.
I agree the dampers are key to a really good tune, but its not just about how it takes kerbs or sticks to the ground in corners. Damper settings are essential for finding the correct balance between under and oversteer through different phases of a corner. The best balanced cars are tuned with the dampers, using the diff to do this is inhibiting the overall performance of the car.
I didn’t say use the Diff for dial out over- and understeer. I just stated that the diff has an influence on corner over- and understeer - thus I use it for fine tuning corner entry / exit.
The main factor for corner entry / exit are dampers. Influencing factors are caster and diff (provided springs and ARBs are reasonably set).
There is a magic point for each car with the right combination of dampers, caster and diff. You will know when you hit that point, it’s just the feeling that it can’t get any better
I don’t tune for tracks, My cars are built for for track types (Handling/Balanced/Speed). I don’t think I said anything in my post that indicated I tune for specific tracks. Not sure how you got to that conclusion.
For me as sk15kev stated … I set my damping for not only grip but also and corner exit entry. I don’t think I said anything new. Your following post I am completely aware of and factor those issues accordingly and yes … I do know how to accelerate out of corners with all vehicle types.
I however do not subscribe to coasting on kerbs in an acceleration zone or braking zone. If my car cant handle what is thrown at it (within reason) something is wrong. Too much laptime would be left on the table for that not to be a concern.
Now ill just ease myself out of this discussion … Again good write up… and I’m sure it works for you but there are variations to how we do things to probably arrive at the same result.
