I think T10 fail to realise how popular their class hopper lobbies are. In my opinion, which I’m sure is a widely shared opinion, the room for creativity and imagination that could be procured from this game’s predecessors was what set them apart from the other games. Being able to take so many different vehicles from many different classes and eras, and be able to pit them against eachother in close, competitive racing is honestly the best thing about this game. Removing the freedom to do this restricts creativity, and therefore enjoyment for many. Which has to be one of the worst outcomes for any game.
Especially when the main reason for most of the restrictions is crashers, which could be dealt with by a multitude of other methods. And I wouldn’t even mind open-wheelers having edited hit-boxes so that the wheels physically cannot tangle, so long as I could use them in races. I really don’t see the need for this sort of update when the cost to the player-base is so severe.
The fact is as you say. For some of these cars, class hoppers are the only place to race them. Or at least the only interesting place to race them. I don’t want to race in a lobby of track toys, or a lobby of specifically SUVs or the like. I want to race my Caterham against modern supercars, sport SUVs, Vintage sports cars, classic super cars, vintage race cars, modern coupes and hot hatches, the occasional van or two. That is on another world of entertaining for me.
there just banned from where we want to race them ? this doesn’t fix the rammer problem. any car can be used as a rammer car. ive been rammed by more 97 civics in my Nissan safari than any SUV.
I’m not surprised that they wont let us use the cars we own and some we payed for in multiplayer. They start trying to do this in F6, using the excuse that it was to stop wreckers but really we all know if someone is going to wreck you it doesn’t matter how “heavy” they are.
Maybe if they did what they told us and implemented on track penalties they wouldn’t have this problem but no they rushed the game out while the CEO was off buying a new Mustang with our early release money.
Its Typical Turn 10 they don’t care about us there consumer, they got our money already. It doesn’t seem to matter how many patches the put on the game is a mess, I’m not much of a racer but I paint alot nearly everytime I save a sticker and sometimes when I try to load a sticker the game crashes which gets really annoying when you lose something that you have spent hours on
I’m really happy with all these changes toward the Multiplayer Hoppers. However, I spend 90% of my time in FM7 Hotlapping in the Rivals mode. I’d love to see class based Rivals again like all the previous Motorsport games had. The current Rival events are pretty boring in my opinion. The only Rival events I’m currently participating in are the ForzaRC ones. Adding class based Rival events would make the Rivals so much more enjoyable.
This is a step in the right direction, but a step too far in my opinion. Why in the world would you ban a car that was literally built for a track? Like the 340R, for example. I wait 5 months for it, spend hours tuning it, and now you’re telling me I can’t use it anymore? Only in its homologation form…?
Keep those trucks and suvs banned or add a penalty system. I mean, I can recall you guys talking about it at E3, so what happened? I’m not sure why open wheelers were banned, either. If it’s because of the wheel locking, so what? People are going to crash, people are going to get into a 20 car pileup in lobbies anyway, that’s just the forza way.
Yeah so now they can’t use big heavy slow cars but are instead forced into a more competitive car to ram people. That’s like telling a child they can’t play with a revolver because they could hurt someone and giving them an ak47 to play with instead. Banning the cars won’t change the behavior of those using them as battering rams, they’ll just grab another vehicle and continue on.
May as well ban all cars from MP hoppers that will 100% guarantee you won’t see any rammers
To me this is a positive. Say you’re in 3rd and your pace is greater than pole position. However, there’s an AWD Odyssey power build that holeshotted past you at the start. So now you’re stuck behind them because they won’t let you pass in the turns, oblivious to the fact that there are serious racers and just because they want to be special.
It has nothing to do with anyone wanting to be special but instead has everything to do with racing whatever car you want out of 750+ vehicles. And we’re not just talking about the big bulky SUVs here, the 2 smaller jeeps and the Meyer buggy are fantastic cars and not big or to wide to pass. There’s so many fun and fast cars that are now virtual paper weights for no reason(rammers just going to find a better faster car now. Furthermore if you’re that much faster than pole but stuck behind a minivan that you can’t pass in the corners then either practice more, get a better car/tune or kick rocks.
At the end of the day I play the game for fun so if you’re noticeably faster than me when I’m using an oddball car I’ll give you the inside line. Not going to stop pushing hard so it’s your responsibility to pass me. I don’t block people but I’m not just going to say oh he’s in a regular car better pull over and let him by.
To anyone who has replied so far, picture yourself behind me. I’m in a Ford Transit on Nordschleife, in 5th or so. I’m average on the straight but i’m hogging the turns like you’re not there. A group of racers have now caught up behind us and proceed to take you out, all because I caused some bottlenecking. And I do this over a multitude of tracks, seemingly without a care in the world about the nuisance I’m causing.
Tell me now. A yes/no question for all of you. Will you or will you not be annoyed? Even in the slightest? I don’t want to hear any other argument. Be true to the heart. If the answer is no, you should consider a career as a monk in some monestary. If the answer is yes, then you do see some logic in my rhetoric but you’re just attacking me for my strongly worded opinion.
If you’re offended, I am partially sorry. It is my opinion that certain cars built and driven in a certain way can be extremely annoying to deal with and may negatively affect the flow of the race. That was my intended message, to word it more gently. And yes, my argument was worded towards the big and slow cars. I have no particular dislike over oddball cars that don’t cause any trouble in particular.
Quite honestly, yeah I might be annoyed, but the same can be said for any vehicle in that situation, not just the Transit, and it is probably more likely that that is the case. As a racing driver, it is our job to try to find a way past them, not for them to let me go. I would probably be more impressed that someone has piloted a transit up to 5th begin with.
I pay attention to my rearview mirror. If I see someone has run me down, I’m not in the last 15% of the race(or finish line is in sight), and they clearly outclass me…I will move over and let them go. That is the respectful thing to do. As has been pointed out in other threads, you are not required to give up your position…however know that you will most likely get moved if you continue to be a moving roadblock.
I will fill the mirror and give a few bumps to an off the pace car…but there does come a point to where I will apply the chrome horn when it’s painfully obvious that said person has no interest respecting traffic that outclasses them by a country mile.
I’m not sure if you interpreted my post right, but my intention was for you to visualize being stuck behind the van, not to be the van. I wanted to see if people would get irritated in that kind of situation. Especially when it leads to a third party spinning you because the van driver refuses to yield.
Just to make it clear, I don’t do those things online. It’s been drilled into my mindset so I’ll always yield to faster vehicles in any situation. It doesn’t happen much on forza, but on track days, there’s not a day that I don’t get passed on the straight by something like a GTR or anything faster than an M3.
The Transit driver is racing for position, as are the cars behind.
That means that they are not required to pull over just because the cars behind are faster. It is the attacking driver’s responsibility to find a safe space to pass, and the defending driver’s responsibility to not force other drivers off of the track and/or make contact when defending. The Transit driver has as much a right to battle for a position as the drivers in “proper cars”.
If the attacker is stuck behind and cannot safely pass, too bad. That’s racing and you’re not entitled to a win/position just because you have the faster car.
As the attacker, would I be annoyed that I’m being held up? Yes, as it is limiting my chances of victory.
Am I annoyed that the Transit driver is playing in an unsporting manner? No because they’re not; they’re racing as hard and as fair as they can, and for now are “winning” this battle.
The only scenario where the Transit driver is obliged to wave others by is when he’s lapped (and not directly battling the cars behind) or has significant damage and cannot put up a fair fight.
Real life example: The “Trulli Train”
In Formula 1, Jarno Trulli (red/white car) had a reputation for being a fast Qualifying driver and a slower race driver. That meant that he’d often put a “slow” car in a higher grid spot than it was expected to get, and be ahead of faster cars in the races. Trulli is the Ford Transit in this example, and even though multiple drivers are being held up and cannot drive at their maximum pace, he is perfectly within his right to battle for that position.
Come on, you bring up F1 in Monaco and no mention of Bernoldi’s EPIC trolling of Coulthard in 2001? lol
Word goes that Ron Dennis did everything in his power to ruin Bernoldi’s career afterwards.
Problem is that some of these SUVs are very fast already. There are SUVs in the sub-8 minute list on the Nordschleife already. SUVs like the Cayenne, X6M, Jeep Trackhawk were definitely not made for dirt roads. And much of their extra weight comes from the AWD. Take that out and you get cars with somewhat decent handling.
(one of my pet peeves with Forza’s upgrade system is how drivetrain conversion replaces the car’s original transmission with a generic 6-speed box, but that’s a conversation for another topic)
I even admit I’d like to see the GLE 63 AMG added to the game as DLC, lol.
Yes I would be annoyed. But your argument assumed the driver with a quick in straights, dog in corners car must be driving a Transit, when in reality there are hundreds of cars that could fit that description.
If a Transit driver was aggressively blocking me and giving me no respect in the corners on the Ring, I would be annoyed.
If a Civic driver was aggressively blocking me and giving me no respect in the corners on the Ring, I would be annoyed.
If a Regal driver was aggressively blocking me and giving me no respect in the corners on the Ring, I would be annoyed.
If a Golf driver was aggressively blocking me and giving me no respect in the corners on the Ring, I would be annoyed.
If a Stratos driver was aggressively blocking me and giving me no respect in the corners on the Ring, I would be annoyed.
If an M3 driver was aggressively blocking me and giving me no respect in the corners on the Ring, I would be annoyed.
If a… you get the point.
And if you don’t, my poin is it doesn’t matter what car that person is in. What matters is the fact that their racing is unfair.
And I am in agreement with Trashman above. I’ve had over 300 hours now in A/S hoppers and I can really, honestly say that in that time I’ve seen 2 Transit crash teams, a few guys hurtling people in the Merc truck, and the rest of the incidents in a large variety of cars. In fact, I’ve seen far more people try to race SUVs and trucks cleanly than not, and that’s mostly because there are actually very few players who join lobbies to intentionally hit people.
Most crashers are born of players who have no clue about proper racing etiquette joining lobbies in a car they like, realising that they’re severely uncompetitive, failing to keep up with the racing pack and inevitibly deciding that the only remaining way to entertain themselves in that lobby is to wait for the leaders to come back around and attempt to hit them. The only other strong cause of crasher birth I can think of is the less experience players getting the wrong idea of another player’s intentions in the closely-packed midfield and invevitibly trying to take revenge, which just ends up in a feud.
And the important thing I mentioned there was the first bit. Most crashers are born of people wanting to race in cars they like, regardless of their competitiveness. Meaning that, I reckon, over 90% of the crashers that I’ve seen in my play-time are in cars like the Golf and BMWs, Porsches or Audis, hatchbacks and muscle cars. Primarily because people who bought Forza not with the intention of doing serious, competitve racing, but simply for the awesome car collection and customisability, would rather go online in their cars and creations that they’re proud of and show them off, rather than to race seriously. Which you will never stop. This game is a crossover between a Sim and an Arcade Racer, so to expect 100% of the players who go online on it to adhere to the sim racing etiquette is ambitious to say the least. But blaming the cars for that is, honestly, laughable. People who want to race will race.
People who want to crash will crash. There is no “crashers car”, there are only crashers. And with the type of game Forza is, you will never get rid of them. Only with proper ruling and preventitive punishments will you limit the numbers.
And to enhance the final point Trashman made, the last proper crash team I saw was in an R2 lobby in Forza 4. There were 3 of them, all with the same livery with “crash” written on it, and they were all in Ferrari 458s. Most rough cars wouldn’t make it into R2, so they used something that could. If players are intent on crashing, they will use anything.
So your counter argument is that regardless of cars, you’re bound to find slow drivers in the corners regardless of vehicle. True. I do agree with that point to the fullest extent. And your observations about cars like the Audi S saloons, VW Golfs and also the casual mindset of the average player is also quite astute.
I’ve also put many hours in A/B/C/S/R, and my observation from that is that you’re going to find people in cars that don’t fit the situation, like what you said. But my counter in-lieu to that is that cars like the Raptor, Mercedes G-Wagon, Jeep Cherokee, Transit and many others are even less fit for the occasion and the likelihood of them impeding the flow on track is undeniably much higher than other cars.
Raced together on their own in a private spec hopper, they do make for good racing. But when pitted against cars of a higher calibre and racing potential, 10 times per dozen, they are going to cause a significant reduction in flow. And if people can cause congestion in seemingly competitive cars, allowing these vehicles to be used only exacerbates the situation in the event they decide to use them.
That would be my point on the topic of competitivity and viability of Sports Utility Vehicles in a competitive environment with regards to its use by the average Forza demographic. I feel that it will be hard to provide an argument to the contrary in regards to the subject of discussion.
Rammers can come from anywhere at anytime. Unfortunately it stems from the psyche. Like Stang said it’s mostly for revenge. Sometimes revenge rammers target the whole lobby because they feel as if all the people in the entire lobby have forsaken their existence or something. There are certain times of day or even certain regions of players where everyone drives super aggressively for some reason.
But assuming the average skillset of the normal player, the self-quote above ^ is a very important part of why I think SUVs were removed by T10. Of course, that rule doesn’t apply to the people that have the skill and confidence to deal with the loss of time on track and still perform up to par.
