Why Are Forza Games Getting Smaller And Smaller? Forza Motorsports (8) Looks Like NOTHING NEW

Forza Motorsport Upcoming Forza Motorsport Discussion
1

The game will have better graphics, physics and damage but will it have anything else other than that? Only 20 environments at launch and only 5 of them being new locations. 500 vehicles at launch but only 100 being new to the franchise? These seem like copy and paste games, like the difference between Forza 6 vs Forza 7 wasn’t significant, Forza 7 just added more car’s, improved physics, better graphics, better damage and weather with some new environments but other then that, nothing new.

“Forza Motorsport” (Forza 8) looks like it will be more of the same, no big new features at all and even worse is the game is much smaller than Forza 7 was at launch.

Forza 7 launched with at least 650-700 car’s and including DLC this number was brought up to 834. It also had 32 different locations.

This is unacceptable, why is there 12 fewer locations and only 5 new locations. Why couldn’t they transfer all of Forza 7 car’s/tracks to their new modified more advanced game engine for Forza 8 and add more new car’s and more new locations.

Would be better if the game was launching with all of Forza 7’s cars and tracks (including DLC) + 200 newer versions of production vehicles that appeared in forza 7 + 200 completely new cars to the franchise + 20 new locations (5 new race tracks, 5 city tracks, 5 fantasy tracks, 5 real world non-city tracks)

Plus they should have a track editor/world builder with the capability to create an open world the size of Forza Horizon 2 or bigger.

It has been 5 years since Forza 7 was released and Forza 8 will launch with 500 vehicles, only 100 new ones and only 20 environments. This is really bad.

2

“from the ground up”… /s

1 Like
3

Ok, if you are a programmer now take and create a new engine with new tracks and cars.

3 Likes
4

You’re talking to Esaki and the group at Turn 10, right? Because the current point of contention is that they aren’t even building new stuff.

1 Like
5

i bet i could do it in 5 years

1 Like
6

Easy answer. Corporate greed.

7

When you look at other games available and the leaps and bounds that the modding community make, it makes you wonder. Some games are easily mod-able (Assetto Corsa), while others are resistant to it but eventually fall (NFS Heat). The shear amount of content the community has made for those games is staggering. Accurate car models, modern tracks (in the case of AC) from data readily available on the internet and historic tracks seemingly made from only old pictures and videos.

Then we shift our eyes to T-10 and the Forza franchise…and just shake our heads. Judging by the number of “indie” car games on Steam, any half-wit can slap a game together. The crux of making a game isn’t in the engine used, or even the assets, it’s the licensing, physics calculations (which does require someone with a bit of sense to get it to work well) and above all else, a sense of politics. A company born out of modding (SimBin), became really good at it, then AAA studios got involved and it all went down hill.

A perfect example is Beam-NG. Well done physics and a modding community willing to put work in to bring out the best of that engine. It’s not just a crash simulator anymore (with mods).

1 Like
8

The mantra is, simply, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it is broke, meh, don’t bother fixing it because enough people will buy it anyway”

6 Likes
9

I don’t understand how after 5 years of development that they have 500 cars with only 100 being new to the franchise and only 20 environments with 5 being new.

I thought transferring Forza 7’s assets to the supposed completely new game engine would cut development time in half at least.

I really hope they don’t release this game with only 20 environments and only 500 car’s when Forza 7 launched with 32 environments and 650-700 cars.

10

Ok take you the game and work with a new console, new engine new cars.

11

That’s not the defense you think it is, especially to keep repeating it. Turn 10’s not going to hire you, so if you don’t have anything else to offer, perhaps your best course of action would be to stay in the grandstands and stop wandering onto the track.

6 Likes
12

if this hasn’t been pointed out already: many car models are ported from the Xbox 360 and are just as inaccurate as they were back then

2 Likes
13

honestly, I expected at most 300 freshly scanned (keyword: freshly scanned) cars and around the amount of tracks that we’re getting, the fact that we’re not getting new scans for cars that have been begging for them for the past decade is disappointing to me

14

Why change what they already have? I mean honestly if they dont scan new models and instead focus on the stability of the upcoming motorsport. That is completely fine with me. I mean they have 2000+ models already built up. Seems kinda dumb to me to rescan them imho at an initial launch… if that would mean taking time away that could be used for overall stability. Would rather it be that way and then update models as time goes by like they usually do.

15

So you’re not buying it then.

2 Likes
16

again, these car models date back to Xbox 360, even the first XBox in some cases (S15, R34, FD3S, 550M, I could go on), they are inaccurate and visibly lower quality than XOne+ generation models, FM’s visual upgrades will make them look like Standard models in GT5/6, plus the game is supposedly “built from ground up” as they say, so why not build at least some things from ground up?

1 Like
17

It’s obvious many of you aren’t a game developers.

I’m not one, either, but I have friends who have worked on AAA games. It’s not as easy as any of us think. It takes thousands of hours to create video games… Even if it doesn’t end up as being as successful as they hoped.

Nobody sets out to make a bad game, movie, TV show, song, etc. They really don’t.

A lot of times, decisions are made above the developers heads’ from the publishers who dictate the final quality and even quantity of the release.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not defending greedy microtransctions, day one DLC or games that release in buggy states when it’s obvious even the developers knew about it e.g. Callisto Protocol and similar UE4 games that require shader compilation beforehand, or the game will stutter on PC.

I’m simply stating there is probably a reason why FM will launch with less content than previous games given the amount of attention the new graphics, physics and hopefully AI are receiving?

It’s easy for us to sit here say, “Fix everything that was wrong in previous games, and why you’re at it, scan new models, too!” without knowing how much work each piece of the larger puzzle takes on its own and how those different moving parts effect the rest of the game as a whole.

For instance, the scanning of new models isn’t as easy as some make it out to be. A lot of times, they have to travel to the factories where the cars are made, setup the equipment (if not on site), scan every piece of the car, including the interiors, and then also record accompanying sounds that in itself is a in-depth & lengthy process given the different engine variations, environmental conditions, driver interactions, exhaust sounds, etc.

All of this is on top of T10 and MS having the licensing agreements to even do any of this that always comes with caveats like “Brand X wants their cars to always appear and sound this way (no body kits)” because that’s how it will be marketed, or has been marketed for decades IRL… Even if the devs have the chance to modernize it in the virtual world. This is why customization is so limited in Forza compared to NFS where they work with aftermarket brands like Veilside, Varis, Speed Hunters, etc. to promote their customization in-game outside of licensing actual car brands (vs. using fictional names for what are obvious brand clones).

4 Likes
18

OK, two things.

  1. We’re aware. You may not think so, but we are.

  2. If we know, they know. They knew well before us. They know their logistics…or at least, they should. Just as they should have known their audience. At the level they’re supposed to be operating at and with the responsibilities they have, Turn 10 and Playground Games should not be presenting as or acting like an indie studio begging for scraps or that one big investor. But that’s exactly what they’re doing. If their logistical trains are so thoroughly broken that they are remodeling hated features, cutting out content for future post-launch shenanigans, and just not even bothering to update even the most common cars in their lineup…someone is not doing their job. Multiple someones. That’s not a good look, for whatever reason(s) you want to abscribe to that.

7 Likes
19

They have had 6 years (roughly), that’s 52,560 hours. You would think that with that amount of time some of the inaccuracies would have been addressed.

6 Likes
20

As somebody that works on racing games, a lot of this is correct. Making games is hard, making licensed games even more so.

Depending on the studio however the publisher doesn’t “choose” the quality of the game.

In fact, a good publisher doesn’t impact game development at all, other than using their resources to adequately support the dev team in certain areas. If a studio makes a good case for why a game can’t hit a certain date or a feature is beyond their current scope or capabilities, they ideally won’t be “forced” to deliver.

In my opinion the publisher’s role (other than selling the game) is to take the experience a developer has created, and build a story around that experience that gets people excited enough to try it out. Microsoft succeeded in that with Forza Horizon 5, despite the flaws that show up in that game in the long-term.

Personally, I’m glad Forza Motorsport is seemingly going to reduce in content scope compared to previous titles. In fact I would have preferred for them to cut down on car count even further, laser focus on the cars and classes that matter most, and build a more bespoke experience.

Hopefully the decreased scope in asset production means greater scope in terms of features, activities, philosophies and more (I’ve made it pretty clear in past forum posts that I basically want a GT Sport/iRacing clone), but I guess we’ll have to wait until “2023” to find out.

11 Likes