Getting a little sick of it. I’m a great driver in Forza, but there seems to be too much of a skill gap in Pinnacle. I’m not knowledgeable enough to compete tune-wise with these clan guys and I’m finishing no better than third from last every race. I never have any chance of winning, which is a little demotivating. The clean racing is enough to keep me interested though. Just a little mini-rant. Anyone have any thoughts regarding the Pinnacle division?
So you’re complaint is that the highest division of racing is filled with people that are too much of a challenge for you?
Btw : I am in pinnacle.
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There is quite an evident gap in Pinnacle (in there myself, usually can be found smack in the middle) but it’s the top tier, so it’s to be expected really.
If those of us in Pinnacle raced in Elite, we’d probably just stream away and where’s the fun in that?
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I really understand what DOX4 is trying to say. Sometimes im 4-5 seconds faster than other People in the Lobby every Lap in Pinnacle. I am able to drive world record times and would finish nearly every race on podium if i would use the Leaderbord car. I often try to use a bit slower cars which can still compete if i drive without mistakes. So its a bit more challenging. The Problem is, when T10 takes the fastest People in a additional seperate League there would be way too less People in there. These Guys would just never find a Lobby with more than 4 People in. Even in the Top 100 in Leaderbord is a Difference from Seconds per Lap. You see, its very hard to organize something better :).
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Pinnacle has the fastest hotlappers and racers in the game.
What more people don’t realise is that the “performance graph” between the slowest person in Forza and the fastest isn’t linear, it’s exponential.
Here’s a hypothetical example using a random image I found online:
In a linear progression, the gap between 1st and 100th place will be the same as the gap between 100th and 200th place (and so-on).
What you will find if you look at the leaderboards however is that the laptime gap between 1st and 100th place may equate to the gap between 100th and 500th place, or even higher.
This is part of what you’re experiencing, as the gap between a low Pinnacle driver and a high Pinnacle driver is huge, probably about as big as the gap between 1st and Top 1000.
Instead of looking at it as a insurmountable task, look at your competitors as a benchmark that you can potentially hit. Save a few replays and check out their onboard footage to see what type of lines and braking points they use. Try out their tunes to see how those cars handle. Eventually with time and practice you’ll get faster, and slowly make your way up the ladder.
I’ve been hitting Top 100 laptimes on a number of tracks recently, yet when I’m in the Ghost League I’m still only finishing Top 5, sometimes Top 10 or lower. I’m putting in great laptimes compared to 99% of the Forza population, but the guys are the front are just that quick, and even though I’m not winning many League races, any result in the top half is still a big achievement. It’s called Pinnacle Division for a reason 
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You’re going against the best in the world. Be prepared to be humiliated from time to time.
Pinnacle isn’t always that good though, so there is opportunity to win.
However, if you want better odds of winning then you WILL have to spend a fair amount of time researching the class to find tunes and cars that are really fast. Because you can’t tune or because people in teams are beating you is not a reasonable excuse.
Odds are you can find top 20 tunes for every track in the rotation shared and a lot of the teamed up players aren’t that fast. It ain’t nothing to beat me for example. I’m only fast when I’m by myself.
They can’t be that good that’s where they have me and I’m not fast average at best.
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That’s because you think the league has anything to do with skill. That as it turns out is all just a coincidence.
The league points are awarded based on how much you play and how many races you do. You are awarded points based on races complete and number of players in said race.
Naturally the racers that are very skilled and play a lot climb into Pinnacle but so do those that aren’t as good and simply play a lot. Once you’ve raced and hit a certain amount of points you move up and into the next league regardless of how good you may or may not be.
This also stretches that skills gap PJT was talking about. I know some very good racers that would hold their own against some in Pinnacle but are still sitting in Grass Roots or Enthusiast because they don’t race leagues a lot. I also know people who are not that fast at all and I would beat on a regular basis without much effort who are racing in Pinnacle or Expert league because they do nothing but race Leagues.
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I’ve ran 2 league races.
Remember the driver ranking system from like FM2/3? The better people you beat the more you increased your driver rank. It would decrease if you lost to lower people. I feel like the return of a system like that to position drivers in leagues rather than their finishing position in the points standings that is the result of racing a ton as much as it is being skilled would be better. If you consistently win in one division you would increase your driver rank enough to move up. If you consistently finished last your driver rank would decrease enough to move down. Within a few weeks things would settle out enough that you were always in races you were competitive in. If your skill improved you would end up moving up.
There still needs to be points in the leagues to determine the weekly winners for payouts. I just don’t feel the number of points you earn is what should move you up and down. There needs to be a way to include the actual race performances in the equation.
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You can finish first in a 100 elite league championships and still not progress to pinnacle if your laptimes aren’t fast enough. You first get sorted by how fast you are not how much you play, and then there’s a second sorting within each league that sorts you for how clean you race. People that ram/crash alot will be placed with likeminded people. Clean with clean racers, dirty with dirty racers
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I hear you, OP…and I’m only in Elite. I’m way too fast for professional, and can barely compete in elite. I view it as an opportunity to get better against faster drivers, but it gets demoralizing after while.
Just keep trying, and if it’s bad enough, you’ll get bumped back down.
OP if it makes you feel any better, I tried to race in leagues and every attempt I made my Xbox 1 was shut down and wouldn’t start up for an hour. I’d get this weird message that said-
Please just stop - you are wretched
Talk about demoralizing 
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The biggest problem is that you earn more credits while being first in elite than being last in pinnacle… way, way, way, way more credits
And I feel you, I am better than average, but 75% of all racers in pinnacle are too fast for me. When I finally reach midfield in a race, let us say 10th of 22 racers, a lot of racers in the back quit and so I am kinda last again.
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Individual race payouts should be based on how many people started the race, not how many finished.
Personally, i feel as though the most demoralizing part is not the driver level (as losses are expected), but the car gap. With certain league cars, there’s often- though not always- one car that is exceedingly better, even if the car doesn’t suit your driving style. of course theres always the option of tuning your car to be better, but when there’s the option for racers to download the best tune for a certain league, it really takes away from being the better driver/tuner. As a personal idea, i hope T10 restricts tunes to be only created by the driver themselves.
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Just let the best tuners be the best tuners and use their tunes.
Then the best drivers will come out on top.
You are making a mistake I made a while ago too - most of the time when people use the term driving style they are really talking about bad driving habits or just room for improvement.
I used to think all leaderboard tunes were twitchy…then I learnt how to drive them (well only up to a point lol).
So overall my suggestion to everyone who wants to compete (including myself) is drop their ego and learn how to drive the quick tunes.
EDIT: I am not saying driving style is not a thing, it is and may require slight tweaks to some settings. But in the main a quick tune is a quick tune and your best bet is to learn how to drive it quick. And there will be more than 1 quick tune out there so there may be other options that may suit you better anyway.
That will never happen and is also rather “Elitist” view on things man.
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Yup and to add a bunch of the fastest guys you’ll find in lobbies know how to tune and build fast cars.
It will only make the skill gap appear that much bigger.
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Worst idea ever?