The internet changed a lot, nowadays games are more dynamic meaning you get a starter version at release and it gets expanded (recurring) with free updates and DLCs. Back in the days they were static, whatever was on the release disc is what you got. And if you were lucky a year later an expansion pack came out to expand the game (once).
I really miss expansion packs IMO, they could really change the way games were played. Some of the best expansion packs I ever played were the Rise of Rome expansion for the original Age of Empires, Lord of Destruction for Diablo 2 and The Burning Crusade for World of Warcraft. Those expansions to me felt like they really shaped up the game and how it was played differently after the expansion’s release. In FM6 the Porsche expansion is not that game changing, the new career gives it a bit of a real expansion feel but for the rest it’s just a new track and 20 new cars. It doesn’t affect or change the way I play the game much once I went through the singleplayer content. Just this weekend I was trying out cars I didn’t drove before yet and did the Lamborghini S2W1 events, none of that had any Porsches involved, hardly any VIR either.
I fully agree with you. The game that Forza 6 is right now feels nothing more than an expanded Forza 5. The interface is almost identical. We only have rain/night tracks, a bunch more cars and tracks and leagues. That’s… that’s it I think? When they release a new title I expect a new game as well, not one that feels the same as the previous iteration. These biannual releases feel way too generic and Call of Duty -ish.
You could just wait and down the line the DLC will be on sale. (or even the Car Pass will be on sale)
It’s not a fair comparison to compare a game on the 360 to Xbox One game, technology changes, so does the poly count and work associated with it. Also every car has Forzavista as well.
Its a simple enough principal. Every product has a market driven price point or a perceived value. In the case of a video game it’s around $60 - $70 currently. Regardless of a games development cost or gestation period they all hit the shelves at roughly the same price. Special editions can net some additional revenue but for the publisher the ultimate cash cow is the sale of incremental additional content (DLC). If this particular game was profitable at $60 for every track, car, server, UI etc, then $20 for a few cars and one track is extremely profitable.
Is this a bad thing? Well, that’s for each consumer to decide for themselves. You could argue that the more profitable the developers are the better for the gaming industry as a whole. You could also argue that the consumer is being excessively squeezed and in fact many games are now heading towards $200 if you want the complete product and this is driving people away.
Is DLC good for the industry and good for the consumer - no. As the amount and cost of DLC increases the number of active players decreases. No industry wants a deminishing customer base. DLC is too short sighted to be a sound marketing concept. More should be done to attract people to gaming and DLC certainly doesn’t do that.
If you think clear Turn 10 are just a bunch of golddiggers. The game is nearly the same for more than a decade. Same tracks, same cars. And everytime we pay again for such a stupid DLC.
You can buy a few times the same porsche pack if you want. And that is not a problem if it was a good game. But hell that last forza 6 sucks big monkeyballs. So every dollar spend on it is way to much.
I’m done with this money francise. I gonna search one where its al about fun and racing and not where it is all about my money!
It takes money to develop new content. If you don’t like the price, don’t pay it. It’s not like you don’t get a massive selection of cars out of the box anyway.
This is just the direction the gaming industry is heading. To rationalize it though find me 10 products that still cost roughly the same as they did in 2006. Now rewind and try that again for 1995. Go back even further for 1985. I remember saving up $40 for Command and Conquer: Red Alert and that was at a time where PC games were notably less expensive that cartridge games. T10 is not alone in this practice. I’ll jump to a complete opposite game genre and look at World of Warcraft. The amount of content that had been offered in expansions since 2010 had been decreasing and finally with it’s latest expansion, players saw a $10 increase in cost with about 30% less content than expansions prior to '10. What I’m getting at is the price of video games has remained relatively stagnant decades.
I came really close to avoiding FM6 all together. The generosity of a T10 employee changed my mind and I took the plunge on the Ultimate edition. I do feel I got my $100 worth out of FM6, but only just barely. I own plenty of games where I paid $60 for the game and $20-30 for a season pass and thought I got double my money’s worth. Now we knew what we were getting into with the Ultimate edition. We knew it was limited to only 6 packs and that there would be at least one major expansion and likely will be further releases of car packs that aren’t covered in the season pass. That said in this era of gaming I don’t think it’s unreasonable to feel that plunking down $100 for a game should include all content. I was extremely disappointed with the Porsche pack. I felt that for the money it should have either included a lot more cars and/or more tracks. With FM5 we got free additions of Road America, Long Beach and the 'Ring so I was shocked when a track with such importance as VIR was only available to Porsche owners. There are too many essential Porsches left out, especially ones that existed in FM4 and on top of that it’s obvious there was something behind the scenes with the Porsche/EA deal that caused us to lose RUF, which hurt tremendously. I didn’t think I would mind it but I can’t recall the last serious racing game I played that didn’t at least have the Yellowbird.
As far as the car packs go I’ll just mimic everyone else’s complaints and simply say I found them to be very disappointing. I will say that I cannot find a single thing to complain about with the Meguiar’s Pack. While I might not necessarily like the Dino or the 280 SL, I do recognize their importance in the motoring world and do think they should be included in a Forza title. The only thing I will say is that I feel there should be more of a separation in the car lists between Horizon and Motorsport but that’s a completely different argument.
Unfortunately I will not be continuing my Forza journey into Horizon 3 and Motorsport 6. I do not like the direction the game is heading and the only way I can speak is with my wallet. A big factor for me was the return of Unicorn cars after stating they didn’t fit with their design intentions(or something to that effect) way back prior to Forza 5 release. I loved the idea of unique liveries, badges, etc for players to show off their top end driving ability but restricting the car was just too much. I know people say they are easy to get but when I look around all I see are people complaining about not being able to get them and for me it’s impossible for my internet connection. I also think there are still too many cars missing that many players have been wanting and feel that are essential to this racing franchise as well as fan favorite tracks.
It’s been a fun run but with the amount of high quality player mods for Assetto Corsa for PC and Gran Turisom lurking on the horizon, there’s plenty of racing content to fill my need.
There really is no fair cost comparison to make between gaming titles in a series. It may not seem like much of a difference to compare FM5 with FM6 when it comes to costs, but in the time between the two titles, many economic changes could have happened. Many players seem to forget that a video game is a “luxury item”, and should be regarded as such. There aren’t subsidies from the Government that help the developers keep the costs down because they produce a product that people need to survive. Developing costs are what they are, and so are increasing rent costs for game developer work places, and costs to keep the employees from getting laid off. I’m sure that video game developers want a salary raise from time to time too, just like the average Joe.
The game developers can decide how to set the costs of the game and the potential DLCs. The players can then decide how much it’s worth to them to buy the DLCs. The ways people complain and compare DLC prices and content between game releases just prove that they don’t understand the game development business, or even how a business is run altogether.
Some people smoke tobacco and drink alcohol on a regular basis. Some spend their money on video games and DLCs to keep the game alive and interesting a lot longer than non-DLC games. Some people go to see movies on the big screen on a regular basis. Some people own cars even though they don’t need cars. Some do some or all of the things mentioned. Among these luxury items I just mentioned, playing video games with DLCs (such as Forza) must be one of the cheapest activities based on entertainment level per hour per dollar, so I really don’t see the point in complaining about a few dollars worth of DLCs that nobody forces you buy anyways. If people find DLCs too expensive but still want them, maybe it’s worth trying cutting costs elsewhere in their budgets.
It’s the industry, stuff gets more expensive, period. IMO Turn 10 has no explanation to do at all about the price of the game or it’s DLC’s but they better explane why the game is almost identical to Forza 5 (*) and apart from more tracks are more cars there is close to zero real innovation (**) in the game.
(*) with this I mean just look at the menus and menu options, almost everything in FM6 is in FM5 as well. Yes leagues are new, but I think that’s about it.
(**) real innovation is not about 1080p 60 fps, not about rain or night, real inovation would be a dynamic weather systhem that influences your pit strategy (like GT6), decent persistent filters and sorting options for your garage (like in GT6), real races with marshalls, red flags and safety cars, things that really throw the game upside down but for the better of it.
I only own FM5 and FM6 so I have no refference to the older titles but ooh boy does the series feel like a Call of Duty stylish 2-annual Turn 10 cash cow.
I’m starting to feel old, but dlc isn’t something invented on forza2 or Xbox 360…
Back in the beginning of the 90’s we had “Test Drive 2: The duel”. A game you could order extra floppy discs for with new cars on it. But the distribution of these updates were much harder.
Also, back in the 90s, games on Super Nintendo could easily cost >fl. 250 equals about €120 nowadays, but if you count in inflation it easily equals €200 nowadays. Street fighter for example, but also Donkey Kong games were expensive…
Gaming is an expensive hobby, but if you can’t or don’t want to pay that amount, then just don’t buy it and don’t complain.
That’s some really cool information I did not know as that’s a game I spent A LOT of time playing as a teenager. Was that a DOS only thing? I would get about 3-4 Amiga mags a month and don’t ever remember seeing this offered.
Complaining seems to be the worlds #1 sport these days, especially on the internet. So don’t expect Turn10 to pay attention to rants in this forum (not pointing fingers here) or posts from people describing themselves as a lost cause for the game. Clearly pointing out the problem and providing a solution might help, but with so many people there are so many opinions. Turn10 chooses a direction for the game that they hope will attract the most number of people and that’s very unfortunate for you if that’s not the direction you prefer. For me, Forza is exactly the right game. More of true sim would make it to difficult for me with the time available/wanting to invest, more arcade style would put me off.
With regard to the DLC, people have said this before, you got exactly what they advertised. That you want more, I can understand, but Turn10 is not is the business of pleasing every customer to the fullest, but in keeping enough people happy to keep the game viable for further development. The argument that if we stop paying for the DLC will force Turn10 to include these cars in the game for free is of course completely false. They will just stop making DLC. After all, we all purchased the game with the amount of cars and tracks that were initially available. Would extra cars and track persuaded more people to buy the game? Perhaps. Would that have weighed against the extra costs? We don’t know and Turn10 thinks it doesn’t, or else they would have done so.
Providing the extra tracks for FM5 for free was probably motivated by the feeling that game was lacking in content. I don’t think we really can say the same about FM6. So while the previous move got people hopeful that VIR would also be a free extension, the situation just isn’t the same.
With regards to the suggestion about dynamic weather etc. I would like to see them added to FM7. Who knows, maybe they will be.
Turn 10 base their decisions off one factor, data, a sheet ton of data. Everything you do, everything anyone does in Forza is tracked. Turn 10 knows what the most popular cars and classes and tracks and ribbons are. They know where people are spending their time in game. They don’t just guess or think or do what they hope the “community” wants, they know because of data.
When they choose to include a new car they base that off of data, licensing, availability of models and cost. They don’t just randomly choose. Everything is based off of data and what’s available at the time. Just because you or I don’t like a certain car means exactly nothing. Turn10 provides content for the majority based on what the majority want. The majority that don’t go on message boards and the majority that don’t whine and cry about every damn thing.
That is why they are a successful business. If they listened to and believed what this forums wants is correct, this series would have died along time ago.
But don’t let logic and reasoning interrupt your daily tirade.
That whole argument about rising labor costs and poor developers may have some validity to it (if you suppress the thought about how much coding had been outsourced to eastern europe and asias in the recent decade(s)).
What I still don’t get is the following: $60 (well more like $80 CAD + tax in my case because “thanks Prime Minister Harper”) for the game with a bunch of tracks and 450 cars. I’ll repeat: 450 cars ↔ 60 dollars. Then we are presented with another equation: 20 cars ↔ $20.
I refuse to believe that adding 20 cars was anywhere nearly as labor-intensive and costly as developing a whopping third of a full racing game with 450 vehicles and a whole bunch of tracks.
I don’t need an explanation from Turn10 - they don’ t owe me jack. It’s a free market - they had goods, I had money.
But, like someone above said - I’ll be voting with my dollar by not buying any DLC.
I know nothing about developing a game or a strategy to get my 5 $/month for a DLC.
But i know i decide what to do with my money and so does anybody else.
I’m (still) surprised this moaning and complaining didnt come to an end,cause its so easy to show you dont agree to their (T10/MS) politics.
For myself i have no problems with paying for extra content and every DLC of F6 was worth the car pass or Porsche/V I R Expansion.