Manual Clutch Advantage

In Forza Motorsport its always been a advantage to drive with manual clutch (Modern Race Cars and some others excluded). I use the manual clutch with my pedals from the Fanatec gear. I also got no problem to use clutch with the A button on the controller. But there are people who got a problem to use clutch with their foot or thumb. And some of them are always complaining that they are only slower because they are driving without clutch.
Why not delete this advantage?
A lot of cars in Forza don’t even got a clutch pedal any more. So let everyone have the same shifting times, no matter if they are driving manual or automatic clutch.
ABS is maybe worth a discussion too. Also i know and understand that not everbody will be same opinion as i am.
Maybe there is a compromise by having a option in multiplayer where the host can turn off those advatantages. Or at least make it selectable that everyones manual clutch is forced off.

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Clutch isn’t the advantage, manual is. But because of being manual.

It’s an advantage because players are able to over-rev the engine under acceleration and over-rev under braking.

Easy way to equalize would be to govern engine speed and eliminate the over-reving.

Also, giving thr automatic transmission an option fine tune shift points would help to equalize the playing field.

If you look at leaderboards you see a lot of top scores are set by automatics also. So it’s not really so much of an advantage depending on the driver.

Also, clutch for start on drag racing could be equalized if automatics could have a setting for torque converter stall point.

I think its the shorter shifting time wich gives you the advantage while accelerating. Cars with Racecar like shifting and clutching system will not be faster (maybe a tiny bit shorter brake distance) with manual clutch. You can hear the difference between different clutch systems, or not, while shifting.

There are a lot of classics in the game so I doubt that’ll happen. Plus I think in FM4 they taught the basic physics of using the clutch (Not to use it mid-corner or it’ll mess up the balance of the car). Another tip I got from FM4 was to keep the car on track, start slow, then speed up. This game taught me the basics of driving standard, so I wouldn’t say get rid of it, it’s a teaching tool. You have to learn how to drive standard to be a pro driver (if I’m not mistaken). I think the fastest people on the leader boards use man + clutch with TCS. Although not as fast, hardcore with simulation steering needs to live on. It helps with car control which is very important to say the least.

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The advantage of Manual over Automatic in Forza is mostly a straight up artificial speed boost. Even in cars that don’t shift at all, if you set it to manual you go significantly faster.

@Ti_Hsien in other words, T10 screwed the pooch and put in a designed cheat?

That’s one way to look at it. A more charitable view is that they were trying to disadvantage Automatic as an “assist” but in my opinion they overdid it.

I only ment manual clutch vs automatic clutch - not transmission.

Its understandable to give some advantage if you raise the difficulty. But i think ABS brake distance and the possibility to use RPMs better with manual transmission has to be enough. Or at least optional for multiplayer as i mentioned.

Over-revving isn’t cheating. You can do this irl too, even with some automatics.

It’s just the way it is, I’m glad you can do it in the game. It makes it a bit more realistic and yes, you can drive faster that way. This doesn’t work with every engine btw. I’ve noticed that the 1.6 Turbo Rally engine is fastest when you short shift +/- 500rpm before the redline

Very true. I totally agree. And if T10 gave the Auto people ability to fine tune their transmissions it would be a tool they could use as well.

It’s also one of the fastest ways to blow an engine and that should be part of the game too!

Yeah I also hope they remove the clutch mechanic from manual, seems kinda pointless having to press one additional button when shifting

Just to clairfy, no one in the motorsport series is using automatic to set the fastest times. Its either manual or manual w/clutch. The rule of thumb is the less a car is away from a modern race car, the greater the advantage with the clutch. The rule also applies to the age of the car to some extent.

Top times are typically not set with TCS unless the build and a few instances the car dictates otherwise. Usually its the build. TCS also is a big hinderance unless you can run at peak grip. In older forzas, if you could do that without flashing the TCS light, you would tap into better rear grip. It was a common exploit, but wasnt easy to pull off consistantly; especially in a race environment.

Also top times are usually achieved via sim steering as you can get noticeable better front end response. However it came at a cost if you couldnt avoid a tank slapper. It was also harder to control when getting tapped in the rear.

The only issue with the clutch is excessive rear wheel spin in some cars when coming out of a corner in a low gear. But that issue can be overcome and isnt a widespread issue.

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Top times are done with steering wheels. You can drive much more precisely that way (if you can get used to them). With controllers it’s a bit harder. You can clearly tell when someone is using steering wheels by looking at the steering telemetry. No one with a controller steers that smooth.

Imo TCS and ABS just slow you down, especially TCS. On big power RWD builds you’ll want longer gears or short shift to maintain grip. That’s what I always do

Top times can be done with a wheel, but controller has always been superior. Historically someone using a wheel to set top times was a unicorn. In FM7 that changed to an extent, but the top brass are almost all controller users since there is a bit extra stability with controller. Motorsport series has always been the weird sim-like racer where the wheel was a disadvantage.

I do expect wheels will be more competitive this go around simply due to the substantial progress made with FM7.

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I’ve tried to play using the clutch, (on controller), but just can’t seem to process it all.

I’d like to be able to drive without the clutch like normal but still have the ability to press it on rare occasions, like when the revs are bogging out of slow corners/hairpins but changing down loses too much speed/momentum.

This is what I do when playing DR sometimes, coming out of handbrake hairpin corners in 2nd, I dip the clutch to get the revs back up etc.

A bit like in assetto Corsa, accidentally downshift without slowing down, BOOM, there goes your gearbox!