Euhm, yeah they do.
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uh, no T10 doesnt.
Just like COD hasnt in 10 years. They might add a new feature here to try to keep up to date, but it is still the same engine.
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The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of those making claims. In the topic post it was suggested that Turn 10 recycles the game engines (graphics engine, physics engine, AI, et cetera) and you supported the claim as if true. No evidence has yet been submitted to support this claim, however; not that I saw, unless I scrolled past it. One can’t make a claim and regard it as truth until someone disproves it, but rather it requires those making the claim to prove it to be true.
So, by all means, please back the claim that they just keep recycling the same engine for every single game.
Sure, no problem.
From Dan himself between FM2 and FM3.
“And we did have existing tools, but we rebuilt our pipelines from scratch, so we didn’t even have that to go off of. We stripped out a huge layer from a rendering engine, which allowed us to rewrite large sections of our rendering engine. The game got a huge overhaul.”
“However, the iterative improvements Turn 10 has made to its engine are hugely impressive nonetheless. From a rendering perspective, the game still operates at native 720p, but the locked 2x multi-sample anti-aliasing of the previous Forza titles has been altered to allow for an improved 4x MSAA implementation which we think is tied into the game mode selected: time-trial gives better edge-smoothing, while the more processing intensive race modes seem to be using the same 2x solution.”
“The changes made to the lighting model in Forza 4 are perhaps the most immediately noticeable graphical upgrade. There’s a very strong impression that an HDR model has been employed, but the key enhancement is that Turn 10 has opted for image-based lighting to ensure that its cars sit perfectly within the environments.”
so FM2/3/4 all used the same engine.
If Forza 6 has 400 to 600 cars pre dlc of corse and better sound track 20 plus race tracks and auction house and free car per level up I will buy it
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Free-to-play forza is an AWFUL idea. As everyone knows, free-to-play usually means pay-to-win. How awesome will Forza be when all the LB cars are “extras” one must pay for?
People complain enough about the DLC car packs as it is.
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Clearly you guys take everything literally.
F2P when done right, works very very well.
F2P done wrong is a cash grab.
FM5 was a cash grab, no difference.
Forza has always had pay to win.
Porsche 550 anyone?
Turn the game into a software as a service platform. Use a variation of the model to monetize, like other games have done so successfully.
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Well…can’t say that I’m “put off” by Forza 6 since I haven’t seen it yet.
Having said that…I’m certainly not excited for it. In fact, I would have to say “wake me up when the pre-order incentives are released”. My Forza experience on my current gen console has been mediocre at best.
I certainly understand and appreciate the talent level of Turn 10’s staff. I also fully and completely understand why the tracks and cars were limited.
To be clear, I couldn’t care less about some of the features that where removed (Auction house, last gen store front set-up, unicorn cars (which I really hate), etc…to name a few). Also, don’t care about features such as “weather”. Night racing would be cool but wouldn’t affect my decision to purchase Forza 6. That’s just me and my opinion speaking. No one has to agree with me.
I probably won’t be participating in the Forza 6 forums as much as I would like to. Just don’t see the point. Perhaps Forza 6 will change my mind when it releases. We’ll see.
i don’t understand some of the views of people. What is the measure of a racing game? For me it’s the accuracy and realism of the racing. If you were to run a few laps of Laguna back to back on every release from one to five you’d immediately see how the franchise has evolved and in this respect FM5 is the best to date. The disappointment is in the amount of content and features but not with the game in its basic form. So what are we talking about really. Some tracks and cars and the return of some of the better community features. Even after the release of PCars there’s no doubt that FM6 will still be the biggest racing title on XB1. Most of the much asked for features such as improved MP, clubs, refined leaderboards, storefronts etc etc would be rendered almost useless on a F2P game and I for one would hate to see things move in this direction. FM5 wasn’t a bad game by any measure. 18 months on and I’m still playing it which is more than I can say for the other launch titles I got. It should however, have been a better game but here’s the thing. By and large no one says the game was flawed, people simply wanted more of what was there.
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I’ve owned all the Forzas except 5. This is due to always getting the best version $75-$80. Then a season pass on some versions then having to purchase the Porsche packs. I’m sick of Turn 10 throwing out ideas out the window. There was no reason to lose all those cars and tracks in this version. From Xbox too the 360 now ok n the one. Every time they get it wrong. Drafting was correct in FM1. They destroyed out in 2. They still haven’t fixed it. They can’t get the 2 wheel vs 4 wheel drive correct. There its always 1 more dominate car. The only way to teach a company is to not by there product. Off they can’t release a good game this time around there losing people. It you pure
pre order before you know what’s in the game, then pre order from me because you’re going get exactly what they are going to give you. A big pile of well you can guess. Take care all good luck.
FM5 is down on tracks compared to 4 - old news and mentioned countless times on the forum. However, when compared to the entire series the track and car count are similar to the numbers seen in some of the previous releases. If you’d gone out and purchased the game you’d be able to see what it is they’ve worked on and improved and be in a position to make an informed post. Car physics are good, drafting is realistic enough (older games mimicked drafting like a shot of Nos). As for dominant cars, don’t you think that in real life one or two cars from a roster of 50 or so would head up the lap time charts - of course they would. You should buy the games before you critique them - it’s only fair.
I bought the game.
FM5 had no online replays at launch which is laughable on a motorsport/simulation game. All other itinerations had it, why change?
Physics are still pretty far from PC simulations despite so much emphasys/marketing on them. I would argue that even FM3 had better ones in terms of grip.
Drafting is pretty much non-existent and rather useless.
iRacing developers proved that it is possible to even a field of cars (GT3) without removing certain characteristics inerent to each one. Meanwhile, we still have crazy shopping carts overtaking racing cars with properly engineered chassis.
I could go on as you can see.
Missing replays in FM5 are a little off the FM6 topic but I’d like to pick up on a couple of your points,
There’s always inevitably a lot of talk about physics in a racing game. Fact is, unless you’ve driven the car in question yourself you can only guess at the accuracy be it a game on XB1, PC or any other platform. I’ve been fortunate, or stupid, enough to have tracked three of my own cars. All three were modestly modified road cars and all three were my daily drive while I had them. In each case I knew the cars extremely well and drove them hard. On track however they were entirely different animals. I think most people who’ve raced or pushed hard on a track day would tell you that even the physics of a car you’re very familiar with and drive quickly on the road will change dramatically when you hit a race circuit. In truth driving quickly on the road isn’t really driving quickly at all. All of my cars happen to feature in FM5 (and 4) and all I can say is FM5 has just about nailed it. Of course, I’ve no idea if the F50, P1 or LP etc are spot on because I’m relatively poor but I’ve no reason to suspect they’re miles off.
As for levelling a field why would you? The point of Forza is the ability to tune a vast range of cars to compete in a range of classes based on PI. This gives a wide and varied grid of cars with totally different attributes and that’s what most Forza players like. If you want a matched field try the production hopper - they’re absolutely identical. I’m not saying that career or MP events with a far more restricted car spec isn’t a good thing - I think it is, but that’s not the same as manipulating a cars performance to reduce the lap time spread. That would be the opposite of simulation. As for a shopping cart out performing a racing car. How about 0-60mph in 1.9s, 600BHP, 900Nm torque. And the cars - well, they’re all shopping carts competing in World Rallycross with pretty much the same upgrades that are available in game.
Perhaps iRacing is an OK game, perhaps PCars will be OK if it gets finished but I see no merit in morphing Forza into a different game, particularly when you can already go play the game you want Forza to morph into. Its a big world and there’s room for all of them.
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Are you driving your cars with a wheel or a controller?
Personally, I find the physics rather weak, either because the feedback being sent to the wheel is terrible or the actual undergoing calculations are wrong. I drove a Caterham and a FWD hard on track and the thing that stood most for me is the tire squeal difference and the weight transitions that are rather non-existent in FM5. Low-Speed grip is terrible (or actually non-existant), the weight is flat and rock-solid, (like every car is a freakin go-kart) and the braking is rather wrong (could it be because the weight is wrong?).
As far as GT3 cars, a portuguese racing driver told me something that even the PC simulations get it wrong. These cars have very big tyres, and the grip is absolutely giant. They say that you really have to push hard in order to spin or tire squeal (almost impossible). Yet, in FM5, GT3 cars are squealing and spinning their tires at 60km/h.
It feels artificial and incosistent.
Leveling the field is what makes races fun and interesting. The solution to that is NOT spec-racing (while fun too though).
That Rallycross comparing makes no-sense. First of all, those cars have upgraded chassis, wider wheel arches (therefore a wider footprint for more grip), carefully engineered roll-bars system and so on… something which is not available in FM.
Technically, the ones on the game should desintegrate themselves when you accelerate due to the crazy amounts of power. I can´t put 600HP on a Chevy Aveo just because I want too, it needs more than that, really.
What makes FM5 different from the others? Features that used to differentiate it from the other simulations are gone. Turn 10 still chases the absolute perfection physics and markets the product as such and yet they continue to fail on providing proper improvements. They say that they are listening to their community yet HA! (I don´t even have to explain).
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We’re running a bit off topic here but I’d like to respond because FM is often wrongly criticised in relation to car physics and usually because players don’t know what accurate physics are like.
Tyre squeal in a game is used (has to be used) to inform the player that they’re reaching the limit of adhesion. In the real world you can have almost constant tyre squeal well under the cars limit through to absolutely no tyre squeal up to the point you’re in the middle of a 360.
Weight transition is an interesting one. In your normal road car during hard cornering you may find the loaded springs compressing by 20 or 30mm. That’s 30mm across the axis of the car and some thing like a Mondeo/Taurus is 2000mm wide. If you remove the effects of gravity and the internal gyroscope we all have you would hardly even notice this level of suspension travel (body roll). What’s missing is essentially centrifugal force and without some elaborate racing rig a game developer can’t replicate this if the car is acurate. Some developers give the car massive visual body roll to try to create the effects of cornering but this makes the car desperately inaccurate.
I’m not sure what your Portugese friend was referring to but any GT3 car can shread its tyres at 60kmh. It’s all down to throttle control. This however is traction rather than grip. What he may have been referring to was how hard you can push the car before invoking understeer or oversteer. This is grip and no doubt GT3 cars have lots. The only way to gauge the accuracy of the game in this respect would be to find out the average cornering speeds of a GT3 on a track featured in game and then see how close you can get to it in game. I think you’ll be surprised how close they are. A game can only simulate and you’ll never get the range of inputs experienced in the real world. As an example I’d take any footage of a motor race. On a long shot the cars corner accurately and exhibit no loss of grip - switch to internal shot and the driver is making constant corrections because he can feel tiny shifts in the balance and poise of the car. Without some squillion dollar rig this isn’t going to be replicated in you’re average lounge.
Big (wide) tyres don’t automatically give more grip or traction. In fact you can fit wider tyre to a car, say 185 to 225 and not increase the contact patch at all. It’s all about deflection and gets quite technical but you’ll find compound and pressure have a major influence.
As for my silly example of Motorcross cars I was only making a point. That said, the only upgrade not in the game is wider arches. If we were to get into that we’d all have to understand track, the effects of steering offset, Ackerman angles and a host of other stuff in order to tune. It’s a game and in my opinion is already technical enough for most people.
I’m all for constructive critisism and I’ve levelled my fair share at FM5 but in the case of physics I’d defend T10 and they’re efforts to get it right.
Anyway, back to FM6 - I’m looking forward to it. There’s little doubt T10 will be aware and working to fix most of the obvious stuff but it’ll be interesting to see what theyre planning.
That and, let’s face it, a lot of gamers have expectations of getting simulation that is only capable with equipment and technology that runs close to (if not, into) the seven figure range. For that reason, I think many video games (not just the racing genre) and their developers get too much criticism over a lack of realism. There comes a point where the line between reality and gaming is defined by how much money you are willing to pay … and based on some discussion of gaming expenses, I’m guessing not many are willing (much less capable) to climb that mountain.
For less than $100, I think Forza’s simulation is fantastic. It’s the gameplay features that, I suspect, the majority of people are yearning for most.
This is the big thing people miss when saying there’s better simulators than Forza. Of course there are, however I just did some basic pricing math:
A two year subscription to iRacing (same lifespan as a singular Forza title) costs $179 at regular pricing.
That comes with 7 cars and 10 tracks free.
Extra cars cost $11.95. There’s 44 cars in total so if you take off the 7 free cars that’s $442.15 if you bought all the cars.
Extra tracks cost either $11.95 or $14.95 (for ease sake I’m calculating them all at $11.95) so to match Forza’s track count of 14 it would be $47.80 + the 10 free tracks.
So you’d be paying $668.95 in total, or £448.36.
I don’t know how much Xbox games are in dollars but I paid £60 for my Forza 5 LCE.
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so you failed to include all the discounts, as well as the participation bonuses etc which make the sub around $4 without cars/tracks. Congrats.
Care to go through all that yourself if it bothers you that much mate? I’m merely providing a perspective here.
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Nope, you are the one doing the comparison. By omitting certain details you inflate the actual cost more than it is.