FORZA DEVS, READ THIS: We are sick and tired of the lack of effort from the devs put into this game

Let’s take off more from that bragging board.

Graphics update, yeah right ray tracing for pc only consoles again get a raw deal
135 new cars, nope at least half are returns
Clothing, all useless and nothing to do with the actual game (cars)
Badges, haha another useless pos added that no one but 3 year olds care about.
Sign language? Ok but there’s subtitles
Donut media, was a joke compared to what was promised
Horizon origins, a few nostalgic intros wow impressive
And a rehash hotwheels, just a huge toy advertisement seriously just listen to the dialogue.

Only thing in my eyes thats any good was the events lab but shows how one person on his computer can create something in a week with a few objects that a complete team of devs can’t do in a year

5 Likes

@Shadow639056 Ask for a conversation with someone from the development team. Can’t even get a conversation started with Max. There is supposed to be a “social media team” can’t even get a conversation started with them. Can’t get a conversation started with anyone. Which is a clear indication, they don’t really care to talk with anyone. Which is a very very clear indication they don’t really care. End of conversation. Might as well just be the period on this entire thread.

5 Likes

I’m not sure I understand the issue on this particular point. Are there wishlists clogging up the FH5 Discussion section (for instance, this thread)? Or do you mean when you arrive at the forums and view all topics in the Latest view you’re seeing a lot of Suggestions Hub topics? The latter is by design - there should be a view where users can see the most active areas across the entire forums; if you click any of the Discussion subcategories then you won’t see the topics I’m adding to the Suggestions Hub. If you’re asking for a view mode where you can mute certain sections of the forums you don’t want to see, understand that we’re not likely to pursue that because we don’t want the community to look past important areas of the forums. And even if we did consider that, it’s one more item on the list that would take time to discuss, investigate, deploy, and then field feedback about how it isn’t perfect. If there’s another way you’re looking to improve the forums structure please put that in the Forums Suggestions area of the Suggestions Hub since it’s where I’d be looking for those ideas and forums is off-topic for this thread.

I would hope that users also support the addition of the Suggestions Hub as a direct response to threads like this. Since the beginning of the Forza forums over 15 years ago there have only ever been single topics to combine all wishlists together. There was no organization to them which made it both difficult for developers to compile the requests and for users who complained that their posts were being dumped into obscurity. We now have a system which organizes and highlights those requests, and community managers dedicated to organizing and communicating that information back to the developers. Surely the folks in this thread would want those features to be most prominent on the forums.

To Knuckleshot88’s point, everyone thinks their small request should be easy and quick, and yet users don’t seem to understand how daunting a task it becomes to extrapolate all those requests for all those users. We have text explaining the reason for the “Solved” status of tickets, and yet I have to keep going through complaints about that and explain what it means. AnakalaRon wants me to put aside the work I’m doing to have a conversation. LarveProduit177 wants answers to inquiries.

I’m asking the community here to take an honest look at this thread and answer: Are the questions here really inquiries or are they demands? This and other threads start off with an accusation that the devs don’t listen. I don’t think you can look at the work we’ve been doing with Suggestions Hub and other polling and ticket processing and objectively conclude that we aren’t listening. But when I point that out, the statement suddenly shifts to “talk is cheap, we want action.”

So these aren’t questions as much as “give us everything we want immediately” statements, wouldn’t you say? Would it serve the community well for me to divert my time to repeatedly saying the same thing - that development and bug fixing is complicated to get right without upending some other area that requires more fixing - if the community isn’t going to accept any explanations or discussion other than completely empty Known Issues lists, and a heap of new cars, and all new gameplay? At what point does self-assessment come into the discussion where the community acknowledges that there may be some unrealistic expectations going on? At what point can I even raise that topic without being accused that I’m putting the blame on the community?

I’ve said before and of course I’ll have to keep saying it: We’re aware of the dissatisfaction in recent content additions, with car additions, and with extended bug issues. Even while the fact is that the majority of our players are enjoying the game, we discuss this community feedback every week internally and continue to work on ways to improve the game experience for everyone. Everyone on the Forza team is genuinely interested in making the game even better long into post-launch. But sitting down for a 24/7 AMA and rehashing every issue that is already brought up at Forza Support and in polls clearly isn’t going to help us resolve them any faster. And please, drop the suggestions that anyone should be fired. Slash and burn is not the way to have your voice heard.

I’ll be getting back to Suggestions Hub work now, and finish this post with a couple of movie quotes:
“Help me help you.” Use the ticket system even if you don’t see immediate results. Use the Suggestions Hub even if you don’t see immediate results. Focus your criticism on what you observe and how an issue impacts you, not what you assume to be true or easy. Be constructive, succinct, and clear about whether your question is a request for information or really a request for action.

And listen to the wisdom of Captain Jack Sparrow:

“The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can’t do. For instance, you can accept that your father was a pirate and a good man or you can’t. But pirate is in your blood, boy, so you’ll have to square with that some day. And me, for example, I can let you drown, but I can’t bring this ship into Tortuga all by me onesies, savvy? So, can you sail under the command of a pirate, or can you not?”

14 Likes

Yes, I for example demand that something like the mentioned MB 190E Evo bug gets addressed in a timely manner as much as I demand an actually working (read not cheating, swerving and deliberately ramming) AI in a racing game.

Your “bug fixing is complicated” comment is nothing but a smoke screen. Yes, there surely are some things that can take longer to address like an AI overhaul but the fixing the mentioned bug above with Mercedes takes a couple of minutes. And don’t tell me that is just one example that unfortunately got lost in the process. We can bomb you with comparable issues that simply don’t get addressed. To me it simply comes of as if you’re not even trying!

I could go on and on but it unfortunately seems futile as it simply won’t get through. You’re getting miffed about the negative feedback that gets vomitted at you’re feet? Now let me tell you the people actually have legit reason to puke complete bricks. It’s really telling that you’re now taking the victim role while it’s absolutely clear for everybodies cat and dog that there are massive structural problems on your side that you simply aren’t willing to admit.

Like said I could go on and on but you simply won’t see the forest in all the trees as a German saying goes.

7 Likes

Hey, it’s not hard. In time we either get what we want or we get it elsewhere. Listen, learn and appreciate the players. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

8 Likes

And yet, they persist. In fact, you’ve demonstrated a remarkable drive to double down on those issues, as the recent updates have shown.

Eventually, you aren’t going to be able to hide behind simply clearing the codes to turn off the Check Engine Light or turning up the radio to drown out the rattling noise. You’re going to have to confront the matter and fix it, and the longer you wait, the more expensive it gets.

11 Likes

Lol you really think that

Im still waiting for some dev to make any game where all the community likes and without any bugs
Can you point me to somewhere else where ill get what i want

2 Likes

@T10ManteoMax I’m not questionning the fact that PGG don’t do any work but you can’t say that issues or possible additions are heard, one Quick exemple is the McLaren P1, the wing does not retract and this bug exists from at least FH3. These should be not considered as demands but ideas on how to fix the game. Take this community and specially this thread, what are people doing ? They want to Help why ? Because we love this franchise and the excuse of a lot of people is playing is not a good excuse look at this thread or Any social media like Instagram, Twitter etc on all of these you can see people complain about a number of things, of course not everything can be done in a minute we are not stupid, but the ideas to improve the game is not taken seriously, take any other video games like the crew 2, Cyberpunk, battlefield 2042 they improved the game by listening to the community. I find that very disappointing to say this community on these thread is referred like we mean nothing and we don’t have a voice. You have here the most dedicated community and the fact that you say other players but in what way is that a good justification, only 10% of your 20 million players have not reached the hall of fame, and take that as poll as well when you look at elections does everyone vote no only a part but it gives you a good indication of what people want. I work 90 hours per week in investment banking and when a client say something well we think about it and we say that’s a good idea or we say why we can’t make that but we never have any answers. Sorry for my long message but I think I’m not the only one who thinks that and bear in mind that there is not an ounce of animosity just the fact that we want to actually help you and we’re sad to be considered as second base players in your eyes and we don’t mean anything

1 Like

That’s exactly why Forza was successful. People wanted Ferrari, Porsche and damage. :smiley:

Already had Gran Turismo but didn’t get what I wanted and switched. :+1:

I wasn’t alone.

3 Likes

Damage or freeroam

Perhaps it might help to change an inaccurate way of recording the complaint status? As it is PGG has a bad system, which clearly annoys and frustrates a large number of its customers, yet persists with it. Do other companies regularly describe unresolved issues as “solved”? I’ve not come across it elsewhere.

If it was changed to something that was accurate (for example marking it “unresolved”, “pending” or “known issue”), you probably wouldn’t have to deal with as many complaints about it.

15 Likes

Totally agree here. This does need changing and sends a bad message to end users purely by the meaning of “Solved” which will be read or understood as “Issue Resolved” or “fixed” when it is quite clearly not!
This phrase just winds up end users
I have worked in environments for the last 18 years using ticket systems for end user incidents and i have never seen “solved” used in the context it is used here by PGG

10 Likes

Going to something like “acknowledged” or “accepted” would probably go down easier for the end users.

But they might not have any ability to change the ticketing system. And they have a firm grasp on what “solved” means to them (even though it’s infuriating to people who have issues and aren’t familiar with the system)

@T10ManteoMax

In reply to your post:

First I want to say, I enjoy FH5 for what it is up to this point. It is a good game. That being said, it has potential to be a great game. Perhaps even the greatest driving game of all time. The key, however, is potential.

I appreciate you took the time to respond. However there are many here looking for a chance to converse with someone about making a game we like, into a game we love. Your response seemed to be more of a defense of what PGG is already doing (which is partially why the game is faltering) and an attempt to redirect this thread in a “suggestions” arena where good ideas go to die. I say go to die because majority of posts outside of the main body of the forum get minimal if any traffic. And previous attempts to start discussions here in the main forum about suggestion topics have been thwarted by you. Locked down, or moved to the suggestions deathbed, or just plain deleted.

I don’t know your level of car knowledge. I would like to find out. Please give us a little background on your car culture experience;

Are you;

A; I’m a retired race car driver.
B; I’ve built and raced in amateur races.
C; I’ve owned and or built street cars or sports cars.
D; I follow racing and autosports as a hobby.
E; some other automotive interests not list.
F; just a gaming enthusiast and or employee.

Most those of us “crying” about the game are some variation of A through D. And also business people who are working or either retired. We don’t want to keep “crying” and “whining” about the game. We want to offer our expertise and experience to help the team at PGG turn this game around. All of us understand we probably won’t turn FH5 around. And probably not FH6. But perhaps the change can be made towards FH7 to finally put out a game which actually will engage a full 20 million players. But if change isn’t implemented, I doubt this game franchise will ever make it to FH7.

Current player base for this game, if you look at some of the metrics, is only running around 450,000 active players. And if the trend down continues then there isn’t much reason for PGG to even be considering an FH6. Maybe some changes can be implemented faster, maybe not. But the one thing that is critically evident, change is needed. If the current business model PGG is using of the meetings you described in your post isn’t affecting changes to retain the player base and engage new players then maybe the PGG management needs to reevaluate the structure and strategy.

10 Likes

You can say that all you want, Max, but when the same thing continues to happen every single month, that statement doesn’t mean much. There has been no clear change. No step in the right direction. If anything, it’s been getting worse.

10 Likes

This all rings incredibly hollow given the past YEAR of ignoring requests and bugs, and refusing to support existing features to pursue shallow tie ins and dubious partnerships. And that’s just for this game. FH4 suffered similar issues.

I’m not dissatisfied with the effort. Like I said earlier in the thread, I don’t think effort is the issue.

The Hot Wheels expansion is such a great example of everything that’s gone wrong with this franchise. It’s clear that a lot of effort and talent went into it, and that shows off in some elements, like the environmental design, but at the end of the day it’s a shallow experience that doesn’t take advantage of the potential of this game. It’s a roller coaster ride, a recycled idea that prioritizes the initial experience at the cost of any driving depth whatsoever.

PGG needs to remember that this is a racing game, not an advertising board for their various partnerships.

10 Likes

@T10ManteoMax

Thank you for taking the time to respond to us in this thread and I can certainly emphasize with your frustrations.

I do want to direct your attention to Asobo, who maintains the Microsoft Flight Simulator franchise for Microsoft, similarly to PGG doing the same for Forza Horizon. They are constantly pushing their game forward with substantial new features, bug fixes and (truly) new content. They engage users in their forum, they have regular Q&A streams WITH THE DEVELOPERS, the have a publicly visible roadmap for future updates and new content. They also have a lot of bugs to fix and need to deal with player frustrations voiced in their forums but they NEVER say anything to those players to make them feel stupid or imply that they are just petulant children.

Just watch one of their Q&As and then watch a Forza Let’s Go stream and you will understand our frustration. One team acknowledges issues that need to be resolved, discusses their limitations and presents new features in an enthusiastic yet adult manner and the other hypes copy/pasting existing cars into their product as exciting NEW content and thinks that little “badges” done on the cheap will get the player base excited. More often than not, this skirts the line crossing from embarrassing to insulting.

PGG needs to adjust their approach. It can be done as Asobo is proving every day. If PGG does not have enough resources to do so then they must find ways to allocate them.

Casual Gamepass players will only carry you so far. If a serious competitive product emerged today, FH would be in big trouble.

Brushing off core players is counterproductive.

Chiding us for making assumptions about the inner workings of PGG based on their lack of effort and lack of communication is counterproductive.

Being impatient with us for being impatient is counterproductive.

Thank you for your time.

25 Likes

I wouldn’t say better

1 Like

Please:

Make active aero work. Example: The McLaren P1 spoiler.

Make shift animations work for all cars. This is a no brainer for a game known for having cockpit view option.

Update all convertibles so that the convertible roof feature works. Doesn’t matter if it’s a bit of work. Having some cars work and some cars not is just really unpolished.

Please.

I can put up with bugs here and there, features that don’t always work as intended, accolades that don’t trigger, treasure chests that don’t appear… but PLEASE make all the cars look and work right. That’s why I play racing games. I love cars. Please at least make the cars function as they should.

I shouldn’t feel like I’m playing a game with amateur modded in content when I’m playing the 5th Forza Horizon game. It’s not an indie game. It’s not the first game from a new developer. It’s FH5. Please make the cars look and work right.

PLEASE.

5 Likes

To be fair, Driver: San Francisco accomplished both with flying colors. People often say licensing is the main reason, and while I have no doubt that some brands like Ferrari don’t like the idea of their vehicles being smashed beyond recognition, and I imagine a lot of it really boils down to the developers at hand. If scanning a vehicle nowadays does in fact take several months, it’s not surprising that many developers just add basic scratches and (bad) broken glass textures to in-game models and call it a day.

3 Likes