FH6: The Physics of Tuning

Since the forums are going to be shuttered soon, as goodbye and thank you for all the years of info I acquired as a lurker, I figured that it wont do too much harm to the competitive scene to post this thread. (It will also reduce the number of Beats out there.) What also prompts me to make this thread is Sepi’s (RIP his account, dont mod) recent video “The Tuning Disaster of Racing Games” which pointed out some idiosyncrasies about FH6 that differ from real-world or other racing sims.

I’ve seen some silly ideas lately, particularly on Reddit, some folks using AI… for a game that hasnt been out long enough to even be trained on yet! :melting_face:

1: Stats
Tuning in Forza has always been about getting the best Grip and Power-to-Weight Ratio within the Performance Index / Class (D, C, A, etc.) Since PI is based on Performance Stats (1-10 in Handling, Speed, etc) not things like Horsepower to Weight and G Tolerance, it is very simple to build fast cars by avoiding over-shooting Performance Stats.

The stats we should focus on in FH6 are:
HP-to-Weight (PWR)
Lateral Gs

The Stats we need to Tune for are:
Aero Balance
Top Speed & Acceleration
Mechanical Balance

2: Physics
The Physics in all Forza games works counter to most racing games and real life. Simply put. all cars should be at maximum ride height with the front slightly higher than the back. This is due to a quark, from what I can tell that tricks the game-engine into thinking the car is going downhill while accelerating. Aside from this, maximizing the amount of body roll onto a single wheel avoids breaking traction in Forza games because, again, due to the way the physics engine is set up, traction is shared between both wheels. This is also why the Peel/Reliant are so powerful of Drag vehicles, one wheel does the work of two resulting in more traction instead of less.

AWD should be your preferred. Yes, other drivelines get you bigger stats, but they get you crappy physics due to wheel slip.

3: Tires
Tires get their own category since there seem to be so many myths surrounding how they work. Simply, different tire surfaces increase Lateral G tolerance at the expense of greater PI. Lighter cars do not need their Lateral G tolerance increased, which is what makes Drag Tires a viable option on light cars. Likewise, Rally/Snow/Offroad tires have an invisible value that inverts their grip ratings (G tolerance) in their stated conditions at the expense of certain PI costs depending on the car.

In FM7/FH6 Wheels/Tires got additional buffs in the form of wheel width, use this stat as much as you can unless you find it effects the physics of the car too much. If your car “Forklift” drives no matter how much you tune take some width out of the back. (In real life, yes, we would add width but that doesnt matter, this is Forza)

4: Parts
Rally/Offroad Transmission parts are faster even after tuning to the same ratings. I dont know why. Dont use anything else. Ever. Stick to a 6/7 Speed or 4 Speed transmission. Elsewhere, You do NOT need to always stick the best parts possible on. Again, our goal is to change our “Mechanical Balance” and our Power-to-Weight within a PI… not be “as light as possible!!! 11!! one”
Aero should almost always be considered at first: you need the additional traction, PI loss, or balance.


~I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH BUILD AWD!~*** You can always move the differential 100% back or forward, but you cannot change wheel slip on your freewheels on FWD/RWD! This has a HUGE effect on your handling!

5: Tuning
The hard part. (Sort of)
All cars should be Soft in front, Stiff in back. Your goal while tuning is going to incrementally increase your mechanical advantage to increase body roll and traction when turning. This is again, is done simply by, as previously mentioned, putting as much weight as possible onto one wheel by using a combination of the Anti-Rollbars and Springs. Use this to find a good Mechanical Balance that allows the car to roll onto the front wheel that matches the turn you are taking on.

Use Damping to counter understeer/oversteer or “snapping” out of turns.

Your Aerodynamics should be used to get more traction, where you need it.

Differential settings are used to counter wheel slip. Pay attention to when your car breaks traction when trying to accelerate in a turn. Its usually your deccel stats. 75-90A over 6-12D across both axles is good for most situations as a baseline.

Alignment is where most of your tuning is going to happen. Default Camber is usually good. A little toe out (less than a degree) goes a LONG way if you have done the above right.

Tire Pressure:
There is rarely any situation in FH6 your TP should be above 16PSI/1.1BAR.

Gear Ratio:
Best of luck, people go to college for this. Start with final drive and make your baseline fast and then work on your 50-100/Top Speed. Keep in mind that power is split between how fast you can accelerate and how fast you can go, accelerating faster is better for most races.

I hope this “guide” helps, or at least gets you to stop using the absolutely cheeks shared Tunes.

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4 Likes

Hi. Thank you so much the information, I’ve been searching from the start of the game, but please can you clarify the aero and mechanical balance, I have to bring Arbs and spring sliders so close together to get it balanced then overloading an axle won’t really be possible.

On a personal note, I stay at home and look after my sick mom and gaming is all I have, so I will really appreciate the assistance. Thanks

3 Likes

Hey there. Both these stats are based on “fronted-ness” on a scale of 0-1. We dont want them balanced in most cars unless the car is naturally handling well. Our goal is to throw the weight of the car over the front axles / inside line, without drifting, in order to gain more traction. This is why small mid-engine cars are currently dominating.

Your ARBs should be set up in a way that is soft in front, and stiff in the rear. To what degree depends entirely on the car/track/tires/etc. Usually its okay to make your front ARB sliders 100% soft, but you should avoid making the rear completely the opposite direction since it will cause snap drift. Likewise, you should also be using your spring settings to get more balance, since ARBs can cause too much body twist when hitting bumps.

Something to keep in mind is that if your car is balanced in the right direction it will want oversteer, which is good. This means you can start to adjust your Dampening settings, start by making the rears firmer in small increments. Something else to keep in mind is that gear ratios can also be set too aggressive for a car that has been balanced well, if you were at one time using gears to overcome bad suspension settings.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, but I put in a request into Google Ai for, how would I maximize the amount of body roll onto a single wheel in Fh6 and it basically gave me very similar recommendations that you suggested and after inputing the car and metrics, it gave me specific values, I’m sure if I tweak them and learn how to drive with these setups I will get better performance and it power slides very similar to Sepi V8 video and I had some good MP races, so again thank you so much and take care.

Try to avoid AI specific values on FH6, it hasnt been trained on info about new tire and body modeling. Its also based on HokiHoshis video IIRC. So its based on some outdated and not great info. Sepi is much better.

1 Like

Have a look at this build and tune from the 2014 Lamborghini Huracan LP 610-4 S1 800 tuned for a automatic transmission, Whatever parts not listed is stock, to anyone reading this post feel free to use it or suggest tune adjustments.

Engine & Aspiration

  • Aspiration: Centrifugal Supercharger

Upgrade Kits & Aero

  • Body Kit: Liberty Walk - Widebody Kit

  • Rear Wing: Liberty Walk - Race Rear Wing

​Tires & Rims

  • Tire Compound: Rally Tire Compound

  • Rear Tire Width: 375/20R21 (375 mm)

  • Rear Rim Size: 21 in Rear Rims

Drivetrain

  • Transmission: Race Transmission

  • Driveline: Sport Driveline

  • Differential: Offroad Diff

​Platform & Handling

  • Spring and Dampers: Rally Spring and Dampers

  • ​Intake: Race Intake

  • ​Ignition: Race Ignition

  • ​Exhaust: Race Exhaust

  • ​Platform & Handling

  • ​Weight Reduction: Race Weight Reduction

  • ​Front Anti-roll Bars: Race Front Anti-roll Bars

  • ​Rear Anti-roll Bars: Race Rear Anti-roll Bars

Tires

​Front: 1.1 BAR

​Rear: 1.1 BAR

​Gearing

​Final Drive: 4.50

​1st Gear: 2.70

​2nd Gear: 1.90

​3rd Gear: 1.42

​4th Gear: 1.12

​5th Gear: 0.92

​6th Gear: 0.78

​7th Gear: 0.67

​Alignment

​Camber - Front: -2.0°

​Camber - Rear: -1.5°

​Toe - Front: 0.2° (Out)

​Toe - Rear: 0.0°

​Front Caster - Angle: 5.5°

​Antiroll Bars

​Front: 18.00

​Rear: 38.00

​Springs

​Springs - Front: 45.0 KGF/MM

​Springs - Rear: 75.0 KGF/MM

​Ride Height - Front: 14.7 CM

​Ride Height - Rear: 14.5 CM

​Damping

​Rebound Stiffness - Front: 8.5

​Rebound Stiffness - Rear: 11.5

​Bump Stiffness - Front: 3.5

​Bump Stiffness - Rear: 2.5

​Aero

​Downforce - Front: 125 KGF

​Downforce - Rear: 100 KGF

​Brake

​Braking Force - Balance: 70% (Rear)

​Braking Force - Pressure: 100%

​Differential

​Front - Acceleration: 100%

​Front - Deceleration: 0%

​Rear - Acceleration: 85%

​Rear - Deceleration: 35%

​Center - Balance: 75% (Rear)

What sticks out to me

What sticks out to me is the diff settings, seems odd to go low accel in the front for a rear bias. If you are going for torque steer it should be higher in front, lower in back.

I don’t fully understand what I’m attempting and this was my first try, when I increased the rear it was very unstable over bumps and I lost control, you can increase Caster for more turn in, it’s a new style of driving, not the easiest for me, but when I get it right it’s beautiful, I’m trying to build and tune the 2008 viper srt-10 acr, it seems to power slide much easier, but thanks for your original post, it lead me to Sepi and a better understanding of the game.

As for losing control when you hit a bump, your ARBs are too stiff or your rebound is too stiff or too soft so you bounce off the body/springs. Keep in mind that its about ratios, not numbers. For rebounds, a 2-4 will get you the same results as a 1-2 for your turn effects but have bigger numbers will have negative effects on how the car handles small bumps.

Hi. I hope you are well, this is kinda confusing, when I refer to your original post and I look at Sepi’s FH5 guide, the information is similar, but what you have replied to me about diff settings, keeping front low and rear high to be able to have controlled torque steer, contradicts the previous information, I’ve played from the end of Fh4 and have always used pre-made tunes, forzatune and recently the pro version and for someone who isn’t a irl car guy, this is difficult to comprehend and please understand, gamming is all I have and I’m pretty sure you are a busy person, but if you can please clarify this, It would mean so much to me as I don’t want to leave this game. Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

Even Sepi is wrong.

It does indeed contradict. Tuning is all balances and ratios.
Since your front wheels do the work of a pinion, giving the differential more torque before it locks both wheels to move together allowing the outside wheel to turn more than the inside wheel.

You can see this for yourself by pushing your hand, with it touching a surface, to the right or left and curling your outside finger, your hand will want to point harder to the opposite of the curled finger. If you do it with the inside finger, your hand slides from the turn.

Tried it.
The build (parts) feel good, ty (I would likely miss this variant myself couse I usually don’t even try widebody kits).
The tune… Its like the Elder God of Understeer materialized its true form to bring its unholy gifts to mortals. In high speed corners the downforce saves it but in low speed corners especially on exit under throttle its terrifying.
And the gearing can be tuned to provide both better acceleration AND higher max speed at the same time.
Also as one of the problems is due to monstrous rear tires I had to tweak parts too - but just a little, basically its the same build

So I made some adjustments:

Engine & Aspiration

  • Aspiration: Centrifugal Supercharger

Upgrade Kits & Aero

  • Body Kit: Liberty Walk - Widebody Kit

  • Rear Wing: Liberty Walk - Race Rear Wing

​Tires & Rims

  • Tire Compound: Rally Tire Compound

  • Rear Tire Width: 325/30R20

  • Rim Style: any -7 kg from stock

Drivetrain

  • Transmission: Race Transmission

  • Driveline: Stock Driveline

  • Differential: Rally Diff

Engine

  • ​Exhaust: Race Exhaust

  • Intercooler: Race Intercooler

Tires

​Front: 1.8 BAR
​Rear: 1.9 BAR
(I’m a bit scared of 1.1 “meta” without testing it through telemetry myself but once I check it properly may be 'll switch to it too)

Gearing

​Final Drive: 4.50

​1st Gear: 2.45

​2nd Gear: 1.76

​3rd Gear: 1.40

​4th Gear: 1.17

​5th Gear: 1.01

​6th Gear: 0.89

​7th Gear: 0.79

Alignment

​Camber - Front: -1.3°

​Camber - Rear: -0.8°

​Toe - Front: 0.2° (Out)

​Toe - Rear: 0.0°

​Front Caster - Angle: 7.0°

(Camber and Caster is rough recreation of what I’ve got from telemetry in FH5 for this sort of cars, yet to check in FH6 but using it as a starting point before that)

Antiroll Bars

​Front: 15.80

​Rear: 38.00

​Springs

​Springs - Front: 45.8 KGF/MM

​Springs - Rear: 76.4 KGF/MM

​Ride Height - Front: 12.7 CM

​Ride Height - Rear: 12.7 CM

(again I yet to check the effect of ride height in telemetry and using something legit before that, same check needs to be done for springs but for now feels ok)

Damping

​Rebound Stiffness - Front: 5.2 (the crucial part for fixing the exit understeer)

​Rebound Stiffness - Rear: 10.6

​Bump Stiffness - Front: 4.0

​Bump Stiffness - Rear: 6.3

Aero

​Downforce - Front: 125 KGF

​Downforce - Rear: 100 KGF

Brake

​Braking Force - Balance: 43% (I didn’t get what you meant by “70 rear” - 70 or 30 as the number means the “frontness” of brake bias, I mean 43% as they are in Forza - 7 % to the rear from default 50)

​Braking Force - Pressure: 100%

​Differential

​Front - Acceleration: 14%

​Front - Deceleration: 10%

​Rear - Acceleration: 55%

​Rear - Deceleration: 0%

​Center - Balance: 83% (Rear)

(I’m not sure about the effect of front diff so just left it default or close to it, the main part here is anyway the rear one and for the rear it doesn’t need any lock on decel and 55% accel provides just enough torque steer on corner exit)

Tried it in Shirakawa - 2 seconds from the initial variant in 1st attempt (and it doesnt feel like a real limit).

* I drive in simulation mode with FFB wheel so for gamepad with assists ON the effect may differ

** The tune is not a hardcore meta - it just nice to drive and fast enough to compete with unbeatables and feel ok online (until you meet some really broken true meta stuff ofc.)

Different ballgame, you can go with some riskier stats since you are able to feel effects more than a controller user. Double points if you got some sort of LFE set up. :eyes:

Look, I don’t usually call cheats but sometimes… its cheats.

Look, I don’t usually call cheats but sometimes… its cheats.

My good old early days in FH5 :rofl:

Different ballgame, you can go with some riskier stats since you are able to feel effects more than a controller user. Double points if you got some sort of LFE set up. :eyes:

Thats 100% true for RWD and to some degree for AWD - a friend of mine tried some of my AWD setups with gamepad and they were at least usable.

Also it seems tunes I tested and adjusted at Shirakawa do tend to be a bit too oversteery for some other tracks. If that one above feels like that - a bit more downforce on rear and slightly harder front ARB should make a day (may be 2 - 3 % frontier brake bias esp for wet track) - the car is naturally pretty stable

What now? I’m still using FH5 tires pressure settings (and other tuning methods). Is there any place with updated tuning tips?

Out of curiosity, what was the time? I wonder how my “sliders goes BRRRR tune” and wonky driving would compare.

For the diff try Front: acel 100% decel 10% back: acel 100% decel 0% thats how i tune the diff for all my awd cars and always stick to rally or offroad diff like you did.

for Rwd cars try (acel: 50% decel 1%) (acel 65-75-85% decel 5-10-15-20%) this will give you a lot of turn in but if you want a more mild car try (acel 35-40% decel 5-10%)

Fwd always run (acel 95% decel 5%)

and a big tip always run min on front and max on rear arbs

00:57:375
though don’t take it as “wow such time” - I really just touched S1 in FH6 and in FH5 I was not the biggest fan and expert in S1 on rally tires.
My most successfull S1 car for rivals was RWD Ferrari F430 on full slicks basicaly a cosplay FIA GT GT2 cars from early 2000’s tuned in a way that it shined on tracks it was specifically tuned for and up to undrivable on some other
(barely noticible short wave at festival arena track could make it perform a “perfect 180” at 200 kmh :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: )

What now? I’m still using FH5 tires pressure settings (and other tuning methods). Is there any place with updated tuning tips?

Planning to try telemetry tonight.
As I get it the underlying idea of ultra low pressure is that yep tires do overheat but the buff of bigger contact spot overcomes the debuff from overheating in Forza. And as it seems like all true tune experts stick to it it might be a real deal.
BellCurve might correct me here if I’m wrong.

I would not since the metagame is power builds. Going locked diff overheats/spins tires too much.

:melting_face:
pls dont.

You can get the same effect without slamming your ARB by tuning the springs and your dampening more. Please stop putting all the work on body twisting, thats how you get “floaty” cars that everyone hates.

The tire-heat effect is basically irrelevant unless you have tire-damage enabled. Open Lobbies and Rivals let you push your tires well above 350% heat/friction without much issue.

BTW a may be not that faster but considerably improved in overall handling version of that Lambo incoming:

Tires: front pressure decreased to 1.6, front alignment -1.2.
Now it is checked through telemetry, temperaturewise looks good though if without tireware enabled temperature does not matter 1.1 will just make it like the same but faster

Anti-roll bars:
Front 12.00
Rear 40.40
the car was yet a bit understeery under acceleration and sustained lateral load at lower to mid speeds so less front more rear

Damping:
Front Rebound 4.4
Rear Rebound 9.0
Front Bump 4.5
Rear Bump 6.0
the car was a bit too oversteery on corner entry and still a bit too understeery on exit (it should naturally straighten the trajectory under acceleration but to a certain measure), so both rebounds decreased to make weight transition affects smoother for both decel and accel and front bump increased to compensate for softer front ARB on entry deceleration (where I didn’t need more oversteer)

Differential:
Rear Acceleration inxreased to 60%
(to add bit more torq-steer on exit)

Now the handling makes much more sence (even though I still don’t like the general idea of S1 cars on rally tires :face_with_symbols_on_mouth: )

FH6: The Physics of Tuning - #16 by Kaxara
For the diff try Front: acel 100% decel 10% back: acel 100% decel 0% thats how i tune the diff for all my awd cars and always stick to rally or offroad diff like you did.

and a big tip always run min on front and max on rear arbs

Such an approach is a bit of a trap imho - it can result in a car which feels like it can turn in and out of any corner with such an ease but it actually slides a lot and makes it slower than if its rotation matched the actual trajectory. At least for road cars.
As BellCurve9279 said you can get enough rotation by other means. And you don’t need all rotation in the world, just enough is faster.
(my humble opinion)

I mean it is not great, back often slides a lot, but I don’t have any better solution.

Assuming I don’t want to run better tires/wider front/front aero. What would be your anti-1/65 advice, if I mostly run stock susp?