Drivatar confusion and miscommunication on forum and with Turn10

From what I am seeing on the forum today there are 2 completely separate issues related to Drivatars that some are conflating because they both involve Drivatars.

First there is the issue of Drivatar behavior, whether its too aggressive or not similar enough to the player’s real style or that 1 drivatar always dominates the races. Personally I am not too worked up about any of this, I like the Drivatar system and single car domination is quite common in real life.

Secondly, what I and a lot of others are talking about in the “can’t choose Drivatars” thread, is the issue that in Free Play and in online lobbies, the AI opponents are forced to be random drivatars with random cars, and thus we cannot specify which AI drivers use which cars, and in general there is very little customization or user freedom available in this area. Many of us like to use racing games to simulate real world racing where you want to limit the race to one specific model or set of models of cars, like Formula 1 or Formula E only, a specific set of sports cars only, or even a bunch of Civic hatchbacks battling it out. Additionally some of us want expanded Free Play and lobby modes where we can create custom tournaments for ourselves with points systems, qualifying, etc and really go to town on the “simulate real racing leagues” aspect of the game by ourselves or with friends, which was great in earlier Forzas and then dropped off the map on Xbox One. This is my biggest issue with the game and I desperately hope something will be patched in so this can become a long-term obsession and not just a few weeks of multiplayer diversion for me.

So, when talking about these issues on the forum, please be sure to clarify which issue you are discussing and not just say “drivatars” as if there is only 1 issue that we are all upset about. These are completely separate issues and we’re not going to get our wishes heard if Turn10 is confused on just what it is the majority of complainers are referring to when they talk about issues with drivatars. Hopefully this helps clear things up!

To be honest if I could just opt out of drivatars entirely I would buy FM6. I’ve just grown tired of their antics. They bump me, they brake early and too hard, it’s just a crap shoot. On top of that I end up with unbeatable cars at one difficulty tier above normal sometimes. I’m a top 100 or top 1000 racer and the AI makes me feel like a novice because I get my line ruined by retard AI. They are taking corners at like half my speed, that should never happen.

They don’t brake too early now, they just dive bomb or run impossible defensive lines and are given a boost to grip to allow them to be fast down the straits again. I’ve literally gone side by side with my exact car, me in a grip set up with slicks and downforce, the drivatar without slicks or downforce (judged from their absolutely ridiculous strait line speed) , had them take an outside line through a turn, out of grip, and hold it while accelerating faster than I am while I’m struggling for grip on the inside. My cars aren’t poorly set up either, this is a top 10 time trial car.

And Turn 10 have acknowledged issue 1 and are apparently “looking into it” but issue 2 is being totally ignored.

I cannot for the life of me understand why this is so hard to put in the game (issue 2 that is - the free play choosing of opponent cars). It must be on purpose? BUT WHY???

Aaaaargh this is killing me!

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OK let me give you an example of my problem. I just did a race on bathurst in an s class car. I have it set on inexperienced difficulty. I got 4th! In order to get third I would have to set a time in the top 200 and I’m just a bit too slow for that.

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plus , for what i see, there are drivatars of people that dont have fm6 yet ( i know some friends that pre ordered the normal version and here came out on 18th )… how can be the drivatar of them if they didnt play yet?

This already exists. Have you made a private lobby and looked at the game options? If you want you can force everyone to drive the vandura and change the winning conditions to be whoever drives 1000 miles first. It’s beyond customizable. Take a look, you can do exactly the things with it you are asking for already.

I would like to see two things in Drivatars/AI in lobbies.

  1. Tuned cars. I know people are complaining they cant beat drivatars, but that is an issue of patience, practice, and skill. Without tunes carrying from user to drivatar and model/drivetrain tendencies we do not have anything close to resembling human characteristics in drivatars. I have to spend 5 minutes scrolling from 999 down to 500 twice to lock the pi at c500 if i want drivatars to not pick cars that are in no way competitive in the lobby. Even then, if i set a full lobby of AI with me and my 3 friends and every ai is at C500 and on unbeatable all in the same stock vehicle even the slowest racer in the lobby will lap every one of them in 10 laps. This feature is the closest to gamebreaking of the AI because they simply can not compete on any level once you start tuning your vehicles.

  2. In a private lobby there should be a choice of Drivatar or Rival mode, If i want to host a lobby for me and a friend to hotlap together with collisions off, i should have the option to set it to Rival mode and it should fill the lobby with the ghosts of the next few rivals for each lobby member. With collisions off this should be beyond simple and wont even need the azure drivatar cloud compute resources at all. If im not mistaken they are already handled locally, so technically each user could be given their own rival ghosts in a lobby with no effect on the server side.

As for the complaints about the drivatar skill, next time any of you get smoked by that one lone drivatar go look at the race results and write down the time the Drivatar put in. Then go look at the top times on that track/class and the real drivers time on that track. I’ve yet to see a drivatar put in a single time you could argue was competitive, but they are consistent, and if you are not they will consistently punish you.

It only exists in multiplayer and that is the problem. Racing agaisnt AI doesn’t belong in multiplayer, you can’t pause, rewind, have a bathroom break, communicate with your spouse, pet the dog…etc. And if you live in South Africa like I do chances are your internet will bomb out halfway through the race.

Also - you can force everyone to drive the SAME car, but you can’t pick different cars for each AI. But anyway, AI racing belongs in Free Play mode, not multiplayer.

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I’d also like to say that every behavior of the Drivatars i have seen people complain about is more common with people than with Drivatars.

  1. Pile up in turn one, any lap, but first is worst. This has been argued since FM1 to be the single largest problem with online and why our default lobbies are with collisions off now. Drivatars arent as bad as people here.

  2. [Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]

  3. Driving with blinders(or turning in with no idea somebody is right next to you and tossing you off the track) again, this happens just as often with people as with drivatars and maybe like the pileups in turn one the drivatars are less of jerks here than the real people. At least the drivatar doesnt blame you and start making racist comments.

  4. First out of turn one wins by a mile. This is just how it is… If everyone is even and one person escapes all the traffic right at the beginning there is no possible way anyone will catch him in that race without 1st place losing it on their own.

If there is a lesson to be had in forza this is it. You can not win every race. And as the count of cars in a lobby goes up the better a 7th place finish starts to sound. The only thing they need to adjust is the idea of needing 3rd to qualify in a 24 person lobby starting in 24th place. you can catch them in forza, but not without doing things that would get you DQ’d in a real race. We need a points system like the league, and public user managed tournaments, leagues or lobbies.

[Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]

Informative posts but:

  1. It is not reasonable at “Newcomer” skill level for first place to have lap times which would score top 100 on leaderboards. People racing “Newcomer” rightly expect a race tailored to their skill (or lack thereof).

  2. Someone starting in 12th cannot reasonably expect to come third in a 3 lap race when racing equal opposition. This effectively means it is a requirement to race lesser (not equal) AI to progress. This effectively makes each race an unrealistic overtake challenge. Either let us increase laps or come in up to 10th position to progress. I don’t expect to win but I want real racing not an overtaking challenge career!

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Fully agree. Unfortunately the Forza games have been like this for a while now, and it’s what makes the career modes so terrible.

I played a GRID game about 6 months ago while searching for a new racing game to play… despite the game being inferior overall, the career stuff was miles ahead of Forza just because it actually used a championship points system and allowed you to qualify, which meant you could run against the higher difficulty AI and have pretty proper fights.

Wow glad to see I am not the only one hating Turn 10 and the new Drivatar system. If I want a challenge I’ll pop in Gran Tourismo 6.