Can I get some advice on fine tuning?

Hey all,

I built a 190E for C and B class Alps Festival. I didn’t use one of the many available tunes/builds that are out there because I wanted to tailor it to my strengths and weaknesses as much as possible. I also wanted to learn how to tune too. I figured there was about a million of these things in the game, so I had plenty of comparisons to judge how I was doing. The C class is ok, but I think its simply underpowered. I got it up around 500 on the leaderboard, but a couple of other drivers that are better than me made it up into the top 200 with it. I’m more concerned with the B class version though. As of an hour ago, I hit #197 on the leaderboard and I’m really not that good. Obviously, the tune is pretty good and is covering up for lack of skill to some degree. Overall, I’m thrilled with how good the car runs.

Here’s the thing… There are two spots on that course that I now have problems with the rear end letting go that I never had before. It could just be a matter of me getting the car to move faster so its exposing them now, but they didn’t exist before. If I could somehow tune them out, I know I’d run at least a second faster and probably break the top 100 with the car.

The first is on the long first sweeping turn. I’ve improved my times by about 6 seconds in the last week or so, so I know I’m coming into that turn much faster than ever before. What happens though is I brake, downshift, back off the throttle, and keep the car as far inside on the turn as I can. Right at the Apex I would always get back on the throttle all the way and never had an issue. Now, after I get back on the throttle all the way, near the very end of the turn (I’m back on the gas all the way for a good bit as its well past the apex), the rear tires let loose completely and I either lose control or I have to back off the gas a lot. What I’ve been doing is taking the turn wider and pumping the gas through the turn and that keeps the tires from letting loose. I know there’s a half a second there, at least, to be had if I can just get those tires to not let loose. Any suggestions?

The second is a weird one. The sharp downhill turn right after the tunnel. I take the turn no problem and about halfway down the hill, if I keep the car near the yellow line and full throttle, the tires will let loose really bad. I’m not even turning when it happens. I’ve been getting around this by either of two ways. Keeping the car far inside there (which is the wrong line) and the tires hold fine. The other is keeping it out by the yellow lines and to pump the gas like I do on the first turn. Both are costing me time that I want to recover. I always was able to stay completely on the throttle there without an issue. I know I’m moving at a much faster speed now though.

The car handles perfectly throughout the rest of the course. I can push it as hard as I want and there are zero issues. There’s still time to be made up elsewhere, but that’s all on me and my driving, not the car. I added the roll cage recently as a way to help the problems but it doesn’t seem to be doing much. I was using Race tires, but needed the PI to add a supercharger so I switched to Sport. That, I think, is what has improved my times more than anything. I could go back to Race tires, but I don’t want to lose the power as its really helping me get up the hills much quicker. These problems didn’t show up at all when I made the change with the tires. As I’ve adjusted my driving to having more power, my times have increased. The more my times increase, the more these two things become an issue. If I back off some, its all good, but my times suffer dramatically.

Any thoughts on what to try to get rid of these issues? I can throw the open source tune/build up if it helps, but I don’t have it in front of me. It is shared in the game though, only without the roll cage. Oh, and I drive with TCS & TCM both off. I use manual with no clutch and ABS.

Post up your build. Festival has a lot of surface and grip variation. The first corner is a place where you need to carry as much speed as possible at part throttle and be very precise about when and where you increase it. The second one may be a problem with the sharp fall-off of grip. If you have a stiff set-up (roll-cage particularly) and are running high camber the tyres can let go quite sharply. On a lot of circuits this will produce the (controllable) chirruping and skittering that is new to FM5, but on Festival you tend to just slide and understeer unless you manhandle the car quite aggressively. Getting bump and camber in the sweet spot are pobably going to be the most help, but like I said, post up your build.

Cool, I have to write it all down, but I’ll try to get it up tonight.

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I couldn’t figure out why someone liked this post. Duh, it just hit me :slight_smile:

Ok, as requested, here’s the build/tune I’m using. Currently its at #191. It was as high as #188, but some people actually had the nerve to go and beat my time today :slight_smile:

Build

Conversions: Centrifugal Supercharger
Engine: Race Air Intake, Sport Ignition, Race Valves, Race Pistons, Race Centrifugal Supercharger
Platform: All Race
Drive: Race Differential
Tires: Sport Compound, Max width, 19" Buddy Club P1 Racing QF rims
Front Aero is Forza, Rear is stock (which is the adjustable one on this car)

Tune

Tires: 29/29
Alignment: Camber -3.2/-2.5 Toe 0.1/0.1 Caster 5.3
ARBS: Front 21.02 Rear 20.51
Springs: 710.5/ 648.4 Ride Height 3.2/3.2
Damping: Rebound 8.5/7.8 Bump 4.0/3.0
Aero is maxed front and rear
Brakes: 51/140
Diff: 45/15

All of the above was determined strictly on how the car felt when I drove it and I only cared about the Alps. No calculations were done because I’m simply not smart enough for that :slight_smile:

Like I said, this car rides awesome overall. Its just those two problem spots for me and that’s it. Seems like every time I get in it, I beat my time by a little bit. I keep inching up the leaderboard, so I’m not complaining too much… I have one of the builds shared in the game if anyone wants it. I changed the build on this thing so many times that I forget what is in that one though. The open source above is the one that I set my PB with.

Bump is too high, springs look stiff but I don’t know where they start.

In order and do one at a time.

take away the toe on the rear
add more rear camber to get closer to the front
decrease bump to around 2.5/2.0
decrease spring rate (maybe)

stiffening the rebound after all of this may also help, could hurt this car as it’s always been pretty rigid

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I ran your other tune that you had. I made some changes to it but i left my paper at home that had the full tune on it. here is what i can remember so far

psi 28/28
camber 3.3/3.1
ARB were pretty similar to what you have
I went down roughly 100 on your spring rate front and rear
Rebound was up around 9.0 front and 8.0 rear
Bumb was around 2.5/2.0
Max front aero with a little over half rear aero
Diff 30/15

Now again thats just what i think i remeber. I wish i had my paper with the changes but i ofcourse left it at home in a hurry to get to work.

No worries just check it out later and let me know if you don’t mind. How did the car run for you? You ran the old version without the supercharger, correct? That version only allowed me to get to like #700 or so. Another driver took it to about #300 though. I switched things up and it changed a good bit. In fact, a lot about the car changed when I made the changes. Don’t know how much of it is the car and how much is me, but I’d imagine its a mixture of the two. Took me quite a few laps to figure out how to adjust my line for the added speed, but once I did, I climbed up above #200.

One thing I do remember quite well is what happened when I changed the rear aero. This car goes up to almost 400 on the rear aero and I thought that was crazy at first. So, like you, I put it in the middle, ~200. The car didn’t handle the same. The rear end was a lot sloppier. It wasn’t dreadful, but when I moved it back up to max, I noticed my times got better right away. The higher aero slows the car down, but really makes it grab the road better. That’s with me driving it, so its far from textbook as I have a long way to go to catch up to most of you. I still struggle with RWD cars sliding out from under me, so that extra Aero is something I want to keep for now. I’m short on time right now, so I’d rather just run laps with the limited game time I do have right now. Over the weekend I plan on taking whatever advice I get from this thread and fiddling with the car.

I figured out a way for me to handle the first turn better and not have to worry about slippage. Again, I know its not textbook, but it works for an amateur like me. Coming into the first turn, I am always in 4th gear. I used to brake and then downshift to 3rd. Now what I do is just leave it in 4th all the way. I brake the same, but instead of downshifting and getting on the gas and feathering it, I leave it in 4th and just mash the gas all the way. Since its in the wrong gear it takes the turn almost the same as if I’m feathering the throttle while in 3rd. I can take the turn much more on the inside and the car does not slip at all. What happens is I end up getting through the turn much faster overall because by the time 4th gear becomes the proper gear again, I’m picking up speed much faster than I was before. Don’t know if this is right, wrong, or absolutely ridiculous, but I’m definitely several car lengths ahead now coming out of the first turn when I run against my ghost. Because I’m such an inconsistent driver yet, I’m still making other mistakes (the right hand turn before the tunnel entrance is killing me right now) that have kept me from cashing in on this yet, but it will come. I ran a 1:50.9 with it today, but clipped the darn guard rail and dirtied the lap. Had I kept it clean, I would have been in the top 100. Of course I haven’t been able to duplicate that yet, but I will soon enough. I have no delusions of taking this car to #1, but I really believe I can get it to around #50. for a relative noob, I’d be pretty darn happy with that. I just need to be more consistent, I’m still too sloppy with my driving. I still need to run 5 laps in order to get one somewhat good one.

I will take a look at your new tune when i get off of work today. I would agree that the old tune you had was a little lazy on the straights so the added power should really help.