Algorithm generated?

Anyone else has this feeling that most corners feel the same and you get dejavu… “I just made that turn couple of meters back?” Is the map computer generated? I marked some corners below which look the same, got bored to mark them all, skipped some parts of the map. (Screenshot of map from Forza Horizon 5 Map | Map Genie)

Looked at the marked turns on your map and can’t help but think that there is a wide variety on those turns. Some are almost right angles, some are tight. Some are flat on three sides. Some are flat. Just look at the four closest to the old airport and there are at least three distinct shapes to the turns.

And even if there is some repetition in turns (similar radius, length, angles, etc.), that is just a reflection of real life.

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The thing is with looking at a map is you are only seeing them in 2D, it doesn’t take into account elevation terrain or whatever, they may look the same on the map but in game different due to the 3D aspect.

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True. Even ruling out the obvious variety that I could see in the map, you have different terrain type (dirt, paved), objects close to the road that might make one turn a blind turn…

Yes a few has elevation changes. But I was looking at the map in FH4, even if we exclude the DLCs the map had lot more variety and technical track design compared to FH5, which feels like almost all corners are technically dumb downed. If we compare it to tracks in the FH4 DLCs especially the dirt tracks, it feels like bot generated with little human input.

Yes, the map has a million trapezoidal-shaped/double apex-esque corners where the angle of the road entering corner #1 is mirrored with an identically-angled exit from corner #2, often after a very short straight.

In other words, there’s a million of these: ____/

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I have the same feeling. The map really feels like there were some hand made parts, thrown on the map and then stitched together with some randomly generated roads.

I have no issues with the roads. If anything I would say they are well done.

I noticed this early on when playing an online adventure, when it was five races. It just felt almost like I was repeating one race five times. Not literally, but not far off. It reminded me of playing Dirt 4, which for those who don’t know, did literally have procedurally generated / randomised corners, so you could drive miles but you ended up seeing the exact same few corners over and over. The FH5 courses don’t feel anywhere near as unique or memorable as FH4’s. Doesn’t help that most of the roads seem to take place in a post-apocalyptic wasteland (or that’s what most of the middle of the map seems to look like).

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It might just be that we find patterns in maps. Here’s a real map of Mexico…

Those shapes look the same to me.

Now that you bring it up, I can see what you’re saying. Thanks for the handy image as well. Never realised how many corners had that same double left/right hander combination with the exact same angle and radius.

A really ‘out-there’ theory, but maybe this is how they helped the AI be so quick? By using corners they knew the AI would be good at because a similar AI was used to generate them?

Some valid arguments here why they ‘feel’ different, such as elevation changes and such, but I’ll have to respectfully disagree as these corners do feel the same. It also doesn’t help that the developers refused to use about 35 - 40% of the roads of something. If I can find the Reddit post I’ll link it.

All roads in FH5 not used by Horizon routes

The AI isn’t fast because it knows the tracks well or they’re well suited to the design, it’s fast because they can cheat and drive faster on straights and corners than human players. It’s what I find irritating about racing the FH5 because you can see them driving badly and still able to be faster than you whereas I enjoy the challenge of racing a human player even when they beat me because they were genuinely driving better.

Thats why I labelled it as an out-there theory at best.

Yes, I agree that the AI defy the physics engine to be quicker than you which really grinds my gears. I wouldn’t mind having an AI level that’s extremely difficult to beat, but at least make it realistic - let the AI just take perfect lines through corners and carry more speed, but not more speed than I could possibly carry.

The AI should not have to physically cheat to beat me.

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Ai need to be able to drive your own Blueprints don’t forget.

I think most gamers get that feeling, but not just of those same turns, but the races take place on so few roads of the total number of roads. There is almost 600 roads, but only under 200 is used for racing. FH3 and FH4 had the same handicap.

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If you want to see an algorithmically generated map, check out The Crew 2. Occasional quasi-detailed cities and landmarks, and everything else is autofilled junk.

Great observation. Is it one of the reasons FH5 got boring quickly compared to FH4 and FH3?

Even today, I feel like driving on FH3 and FH4 roads and they don’t bore me that much.

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That’s because they are smaller and operate on “great divide” design - you exit a tunnel and are in a different biome (please take into account some exaggeration from my side here). In FH5 transition from jungle to dunes takes 3 minutes in Jesko at 440 km/h on the highway but the transition seems slow and boring (as in real life, highways are great for covering the ground but super boring). The map feels empty because it takes longer to experience drastic change of environment you are currently driving in

The map feels empty because it is empty

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Algorithms can also create perfect maps as well, not just fake looking maps.