The “hidden costs” excuse really isn’t a good one to be honest. Especially when considering something as small as a warning pop-up before entering an online lobby saying that disrespectful/bad driving will get you banned. Cost apparently wasn’t an issue when putting out the pop-ups letting us know about Forza RC when we turned on our consoles. Nor was it an issue when putting a warning pop-up in the livery creator reminding players to not use offensive paint-jobs or else risk getting banned. But all of a sudden when people ask for the same kind of warning before entering an online match there’s “hidden costs”? Not gonna fly; especially if Turn 10 ever wants to turn Forza into an eSport.
You also cannot just keep saying “We already have Terms and Conditions that everyone agrees to when signing up” in order to justify not giving out extra warnings before even playing either because
A. No one reads them.
B. More importantly, there’s not going to be any references on how to behave in a racing game.
The truth is that driver etiquette on a track is not common knowledge at all, and even lots of people who grew up playing the old Gran Turismos and Forzas still have no idea about how to drive properly. Like this reviewer for GT5 for instance. This is a guy who’s apparently been playing GT since the first one, but that hasn’t stopped him from doing this very shoddy defensive move.
It also doesn’t help that Turn 10 also make Forza Horizon, which encourages the exact same driving style that’s so reprehensible in the hoppers. So no, that extra warning is not like putting “This product may contain nuts” on a package of nuts. It’s more like putting “this product is highly flammable” on an extremely flammable chemical with a very long name, that people would only ever know was flammable if they looked it up in a chemistry textbook.
The fact is that a lot (most?) of people don’t read the CofC when they sign up to play. Much like the T&C’s that we ‘agree’ to and say that we’ve read when we sign up to websites, mobile phone contracts etc. A line of text pointing out the relevant part of the CofC upon entering multiplayer would ensure that everyone sees it. I agree that some will ignore it but, given that, then the inverse must also be true. Surely a good thing?
Your link (from 2012) regarding the cost of patching a game suggests a figure of 40k(USD). A quick search shows that from 2013 Microsoft stopped charging developers for game updates. I don’t know if this still applies but considering turn10 is owned by Microsoft, in real terms the cost would effectively be zero anyway, wouldn’t it? Even if it was 40k, I would consider it a good investment for a (circa.)billion dollar franchise. In any case, I’m not suggesting a standalone patch for a line of text, perhaps include it in a scheduled update?
Your comments regarding the Xbox reporting system etc. are all well and good, I’m aware that these options exist but they are only effective after the fact. My suggestion is aimed at prevention, not cure. Mine is not a knee-jerk reaction, but a result of a lot of frustration at not being able to get a decent race 8/10 times I enter one (I have been counting).
Finally, I considered putting this in a wish list thread, but based upon my relatively small subject study I thought it would be prudent to gauge opinion before doing so, feel free to move this if you wish. Rest assured I know exactly where to post my further suggestions, thank you.
You can’t seriously be arguing that putting some sort of message somewhere in the game to communicate that wrecking won’t be tolerated and then backing it up with bans would be less effective than only banning?
Theres already guidelines on how to behave online, not just forza but on xbox as a whole. Adding yet another message to say “dont be a pillock” seems like adding a “this product may contain nuts” on a packet of nuts.
This would be true if the entire single player game didn’t encourage exactly the behaviour that ruins multiplayer lobbies, but it does.
The assumption that all new players just know what racing etiquette means is ridiculously shaky, but even if it wasn’t, we’re talking about communicating consequences to players, the overwhelming majority of whom will never have been near this forum.
Would telling players that ramming can get them banned solve all ramming? No, of course not, but I’d happily bet you £100 it would have a bigger effect than the secret banning “system” we have at present.
Zed has hit the nail on the head perfectly. I dunno how wsd or anyone who actually plays the game more than once a month could argue with that.
Just because xbox have there terms and conditions that dosnt mean t10 and its moderators/marshalls can sit back be lazy and say that’s that sorted. It’s not sorted at all, just like this forum has it’s rules in place for everyone to read so should the game. It needs ramming down everyone’s throats right from the start. It’s a “it will be alright” attitude that is currently ruining the game. Frankly I expected more support from wsd and the marshall team I thought u guys would understand the importance of being a visable threat to the wreckers. But I suppose when you belive 99% is accidental then your not gunna be that passionate about improving the game
How many threads are there on these (and other) forums from people banned as crashers? The rules are the rules, and no one is being lazy. You have no idea how much time and effort is spent by many, many people to try to make these games enjoyable. Previous versions (before the hit-everthing-in-sight-for-achievements-credits of Horizon) allow private races, with the ability to kick people who behaved poorly. That’s gone, and we see the mess it is now.
What is the normal reaction when you tell someone their driving is not acceptable in FM6? Usually you can rammed, sworn at and suddenly they’ve got friends showing up to attack you. Correct? The Marshals nor any other moderation methods outside the walls of Turn 10 are NOT PERMITTED to ban anyone. Only employees can do that. Only employees have access to the special software to do that.
Warnings, flashing on the screen or verbally are obviously rejected outright or ignored.
Snowowl I’m very sorry to have implied that you are lazy. The fact is I don’t think I know anyone who spends more time than your self trying to improve the games experience for all. But I do think that either I haven’t been clear or you have misunderstood my post.
What I’m trying to say is that the marshals should be a visable threat. Everyone in game should be notified of who a marshall is what they can do along with a set of t&cs in game and the consquences.
What I think is lazy is not wanting that and relying on pre existing t&cs that are not always relevant to every game.
I would of expected the marshalls to be behind that and not want to lerk in secret along with the posts on here that none of the rammers will see.
But like I said if you don’t play the game that much and belive 99% is accidental contact then your not gunna want to improve the game. That tells me your happy because I’d be very very happy with that figure if only it was true
Some do some don’t the only reason for this is entrapment. Why does it seem so obvious to the rest of us that the marshal team need to be a visable threat.
Exactly, especially with an influx of Forza Horizon players every year growing more and more. I played the FH1 for the first time on games with gold and you pretty much have to drive like a [Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D] to get a top 3.
In fact the single-player structure in Forza Motorsport also encourages this behavior. Race etiquette is not taught period.
Nowhere in Forza Motorsport do they explain that anything in the top 10 a good day.
99% of people who have been banned know exactly why they have been banned, maybe whats needed is a warning not to believe everything you read on the internet.
I’m certainly not going to believe your made-up stats on how many banned rammers (and as-yet unbanned rammers) might have acted differently if they’d known they might be banned, but even if they’re correct, would a 1% improvement not be worth the virtually 0 cost of adding a warning to the loading screens?
As I said, I’d still bet that 1% would be an improvement over what we’ve had since launch.
and I am not going to believe your made up stats on how much it would cost to reprogramme parts of the game.(see, at least we know not to believe everything you read on the internet)
It’s a bit funny that you say that, considering SMS has a better system in PCARS for dealing with this problem than T10 does for Forza… PCARS was crowdfunded, while T10 is backed by Microsoft (worth $68.6 billion), they’re coming up on 7 core titles and 3 spin-offs now, and they STILL haven’t fixed things that the community has complained about since the first game, yet they claim Forza 5 was “built from the ground up.” That’s a bit of a sham, in all honesty… But hey, maybe we’ll see some sort of punishment for wreckers in Forza 10. Then maybe we’ll get variable weather on all tracks in Forza 12!
But you don’t have to believe it, because what you think makes no difference to anyone. Either someone from T10 will read the OP and following discussion and think it’s a good idea, or they won’t.
Come on. It really does not matter if you have a Marshall shown and present. That will not stop the start pile up, or the first turn bash up. Do you do everything you can to help? I have not MP since Feb./March for the Trofeo. I have been lately, because I want the dlc in the events. and to tier up for H3 perks. I can tell you I have seen a difference in the amount of rammers. Are you sure you are not dealing with lousy drivers? There are a lot of them. When I see a racer acting aggressive, I will PM them or tell them right on the mic. That I record and report. They usually will settle down or leave. I have raced 15-20 lobbies in the last few months, and I can honestly say I have not run into any wreckers. Just mostly lousy drivers. I can not believe I am just getting lucky.
