A positive rant on FM7's development by T10.

This does seem to be very accurate point. Nearly everyone on this forum has wondered why the public lobbies randomly disappeared and have never returned. And even though the driver bodysuits look kind of snazzy, I can’t think of one person I’ve chatted with or played with that has ever mentioned that was something they wanted.

The reason I think they probably added the driver gear is it give them something to say, “hey look we have something no other racing game has”. Additionally with the younger gamers, cosmetic items are super popular. There are a bunch of games that are completely free to play that generate their entirety of revenue based on outfits and cosmetic items, ghat are purchasable with real money in game. So if it’s that popular, it was probably something during their discussions they said would be a benefit and a show-off item for the series. Those of us that are into the game for the racing probably could mostly care less. I think they’re pretty neat, but would have preferred another new track.

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That’s all well and good and may even be true, but the value proposition of a new product isn’t how hard it was to create, it’s how much it attracts customer to buy it, and what will entice existing players to upgrade isn’t necessarily the same as what will attract new customers to the franchise. A studio can’t do everything and so it has to prioritise. What all the moaning is about is basically people just arguing that T10 chose the subjectively wrong priorities.

Which is fine. That’s all valid feedback. And if FM7 attracts more new people to play than it alienates, then no one can argue that T10’s priorities were wrong. The only thing that would make T10’s priorities wrong was if FM7 made less money than if they had chosen different priorities, and that won’t happen because the vast majority of the complainers will buy it anyway.

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Well FM4 sold more copies than FM5 and FM6 combined. So the fact that they are sticking with this dumb marketing strategy doesn’t make any sense from a money standpoint. What I think happened is that T10 got lazy with their game development because they enjoyed the fact that PCARs didn’t live up to the hype and Gran Turismo didn’t even have a game on a current gen console. This brings us to today where they think it’s a good idea to reply to people who have legitimate questions about the franchise with stupid memes. The only real reason to buy FM7 would be an easier time qualifying for FRC Season 4 if enough of the top players get angry enough with the franchise to not even bother with it. And even then good luck using your own resources to fly halfway around the world on short notice if you do make it!

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Apples and oranges. FM4 was released at the peak of one of the most successful consoles of all time. FM5 was a launch title on a new console and FM6 was released when XBone still only had a fraction of the units and monthly player numbers as the 360 did (still does, in fact). T10 aren’t selling FM7 into the 2011 market, they are selling it now.

And that’s the point. T10 aren’t trying to make the best game they can make, they are trying to make the most successful game they can make, and those aren’t the same thing. On the one hand, “best” is totally subjective to the individual player, and on the other hand “successful” can include any number of criteria. It’s nice when they overlap, but they don’t have to.

Personally, I’m disappointed with T10’s decisions on FM7. I have zero interest in any of the new features and have not heard of any improvements to the parts of the game that would make my experience better than in FM6, so I already cancelled my pre-order. I’m not yet absolutely certain I won’t buy it - it’s still possible that there are such improvements and the marketing has just been poor, and of course if all my racing chums are playing it I’ll be tempted anyway - but at this stage I’d certainly rather not buy it and I’ll try every other alternative before I do. But I’m not kidding myself that me not buying it will cause T10 any sleepless nights if the features I don’t care about cause thousands of new players to buy it wouldn’t have otherwise.

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Rossi you are right in some aspects but wrong on a few things. I agree that posting memes to people who have legitimate questions, dead emails where you have no customer support and total silence outside of the weekly reveals are hurting the franchise. That being said I don’t think they got lazy, I think the community doesn’t know what it wants from their Forza titles and has been over saturated over the past few years with racing titles that all have the same tracks and roughly the same cars. T10 has re-implemented many fan favorite features and added new features as the OP has stated which are not negligible. As for the sales keep in mind that FM4 sold on a platform that has 3X more sales than the FM5 and 6 platforms.

I’m probably biased as I am/was a PC player forced into buying a console due to the mess that was FH3 for the first half of the year whilst they got to grips with PC’s…

Here’s my take on it…

We are pretty much getting just about all the cars from the previous motorsport and horizon titles including those which were DLC (with perhaps a few notable exceptions which will upset some) , Same for tracks/ribbons (again with perhaps a few notable exceptions which will upset some) and new content that is likely to be DLC and or expansions in the coming months…

In the last year I have played enough FH3 , FH2 , FH2 F&F , FM 5 and FM6 and their expansion to get as far as I can without being around to get the online side of things done…

I’m happy because I will getting the full on Forza Motorsport experienced on the PC for the first time hopefully in 4K with my setup driving my 40" 4K TV a few inches in front of my nose… (Apex runs really nicely even at 5K on my main monitor) … If it does then I won’t need to buy the X Box One X something I am hoping to avoid as I cant play FPS on console - I need my gaming keyboard mouse and headset to make that an enjoyable experience…

Hopefully game save syncing issues aren’t going to be a problem as I might play it on the X Box One S occasionally…

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Forza has been written to work on x64 since Forza 5, the Xbox One is basically a PC with custom hardware, it isn’t a different architecture. You don’t have to engineer the game to run on all different types of hardware, Windows takes care of most of that, and has since we left the days of DOS.

But in any case, all I give credit for is the final product, why should I as the customer care what it took to achieve it? How does that work ‘yeah the game offers little over FM6 but I’ll reward them by buying it anyway because they put a lot of work in’ - that’s silly.

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Let me make it simple, It doesnt matter how many cars or tracks they are. You either like/want this game or you don’t.

I for one will always love the Forza franchise. I will not spend as much time on any other racing simulator. This is the end all be all for me. I am happy with what Turn 10 does. and I love playing their games. So if they decide to only have five cars and one track in a game and charge $100.00 for the game. I’ll buy it. Because I know it will be as good or better than the other games they have. To me they have not taken a step backwards ever. Each game keeps giving us more. When FM7 is all done with I know it will have more then FM6 and 5 put together.

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What you said is all fine and dandy but I think the real reason people are disappointed is that they have been asking for certain features like the clubs and custom public lobbies to be implemented back into the series and Turn10 hasn’t done anything about it. They now have a partnership with porsche and what porsches did the bring? None really except the GT2RS and how long have they had to get porsches in? Since FH2 and arguably 4 since a lot of the cars aren’t even re-scans. You can argue licensing but that doesn’t dismiss the fact that they released packs which had a ton of cars.

For players on the new gen, it seems like they are trying way to hard to make the game beautiful. I mean Dan even said during the release of 5 that “people by the game because it looks beautiful on their new console.” Almost every single new feature of 7 was how the game looks. So was forza 6 with native 1080p and 60fps. Here, take Road atlanta for example if you dont believe me. They never re-scanned the track (which they boasted that forza 5 was built ground up). Its still the pre-updated 2006 circuit from the forza 2 days with better textures and stuff. I dont know how it will be in 7 but I can almost guarantee the just pasted it in.

Its all good that Turn10 is trying to open their market but at the same time it feels like they are forgetting the features that made this series so beloved. Not to mention they keep cramming down the 4k 60fps 700+ cars jargon like they did with 5 and 6 instead of the features a large part of the community wants to see again. Since 5, people have been asking about these features and they just seem to change the subject.

I remember something that was said in a forza 6 review that went along the lines of “Re implement all of the features that were removed for no reason back into the next gen Forzas, then worry about the innovating.”

Here it is: Forza Motorsport 6 - Review - Turn 10 Has Lost Their Direction - YouTube
He comes off pretentious but he does make some valid points.I feel the same things said in this video can easily be used to critique the next Motorsport. We know Turn10 works hard, but a lot of players from early forza games feel its for some features that dont seem to be needed. There should be a lot more transparency over at Turn10 and the community and we all know they dont really listen to us.

They could make a much better forza game with all these innovations if they listened to the community and got off the 2 year cycle.

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You don’t have to rescan a track unless it has changed. Or your original scan was done and an extremely low resolution. I work regularly with a client that is a high-definition laser scanning company. They do it for: mining companies, National Geographic, television, you name it. They can use data that they have that’s 15 years old because they originally scanned with high resolution scanners at the time and the data is of good enough detail for the fiven project. They can wrap textures or photos taken with drones over the meshes the scans are used to create and it looks perfect. If they put new textures on top of an old scan, that is rebuilding from the ground up. You do not need to rescan to be considered rebuilding.

When the esses on road atlanta are completely different today with more runoff and roads around it, they most certainly should have fixed this. There is a new esses layout there that doesnt exist in game.
Here it is pre 06 (the one ingame)

here it is today

My point still stands, they should have fixed this.

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Seems like the most appropriate and balanced response would be:

"Thanks for your feedback, you can contact the developers directly via their email forzafb@microsoft.com "

:wink:

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Seems like every thread like this devolves into the same circular conversation. The OP was just one guy’s opinion that brings up several factual points. Then follows the typical pattern. You have a couple people agree and say “good job” and then the rebutters come in with their take usually involving features personal to themselves that are missing, completely ignoring the things that have been added or developed for this title over Forza 6. For me they added the things that I wanted so the purchase makes sense. To me. Let’s make that clear. Yes I’d like more tracks but I also wanted my Forza 4 favorites carried forward.

-k

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I mean, I have no doubt that Turn 10 did everything they could do within their time and funding for Forza 7 and I don’t hold any grudge against them over the game. But they simply haven’t pushed the series forward here as much as they did in Forza 6 or even Forza 5, and that’s inevitably left many of us disappointed.

As you say, they’re setting the groundwork to make things easier further down the line, and I’m hoping that in another two years we’ll go back to the serious push for making Forza the best racing title it deserves to be.

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Yall can tell how those “new features” run for ya. I’ll grab the next iteration. Maybe it will have new features and new content. So i won’t be bored in two weeks with all those new features.

Actually if those features end up being such a game changer then I will purchase it… In the used bin, for the proper price of dlc content.

Before “y r u here, bro?” I’m here to keep track. Never know what info will change your mind. Oh and because free Web???

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I feel the exact same way about Project Cars 2. It’s a show me game. At least we agree on something.

-k

This is a great post! And the main speaker makes a valid point of course. The replies reflect how many feel and its interesting to see how some accept and some resist the new product which is F7.
For me, as an existing customer, I do tend to instinctively lean towards the dissapointed side, but doing so, still understand how hard Turn 10 have worked to keep up with ever changing technology. But new content in a racing game will always be more popular with new tracks rather than new features. A new helmet and extra polish on the dashboard isnt as desirable as a new track in my oppinion.
But I do love graphics and will buy the game because it is simply the best looking game this year! I just wish that if resources are tight and demand for development in a world where technology changes so quickly, is heavy, Turn 10 would think strongly about cutting profits and increase staffing levels, at least when times demand it to provide a full experience for existing customers and not just a more polished product with only a few obvious additions to what was already a great game in Forza 6.

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I’ve been to road Atlanta and the track in game matches the bottom pic but there are concrete and tire walls blocking the left route. Also, it wouldn’t matter as only motorcycles take that route. It’s the same at the last turn. Motorcycles take a different route but there is a concrete wall in Forza. Again a non factor as it’s a car game. Its amazing how close the game is to reality, actually.

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What you are talking about are the top esses which have been unchanged since the tracks inception. Go back to Road Atlanta and play the game and you will see the bottom of the esses are completely off with how it is in real life TODAY not in 2006. I will not continue dragging this out. My point stands. They had the time to fix it and they never bothered.

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Just did. I can admit when I’m wrong. You are right I was thinking that was turn 3 not turn four. My point still stands only motorcycles take that route it would be blocked by barriers anyway.