A few rants from a newish player

[SluggedNebula2]

I’m relatively new to Forza, having only started playing a few months ago. So far so good, but I have a few bugbears:

Highly Skilled = Newb?

Sometimes, the drivatars make serious mistakes and end up crashing into tyre barriers, even on Highly Skilled and Expert difficulties. I’m not talking about the odd slip - quite often I see 10 drivatar cars come off the same bend. This seems to happen disproportionately often on Sonoma Raceway with the Lotus E23 (turn 4 is where it tends to happen), but sometimes happens on other tracks.

P and X class grid starts = demolition derby

This is why I turn off simulated damage when racing these cars. On tracks like the Nordschliefe, the start is so crowded that the game becomes a demolition derby. Real F1 and endurance races are much more civilized.

Braking Lines

I use the braking line - it is an immense help. However, phantom braking zones appear on the tops of slopes (plenty of them in the Nordschliefe) and on steep slopes such as the downhill section in the Bermese Alps track. On the other hand, the braking line sometimes grossly underestimates the amount of braking required, such as Sonoma turn 4 (that might be what’s causing the mass-gathering of drivatars on the tyre barriers), and pretty much everywhere when driving cars from the Modern Hypercar class.

Tuning

I feel that there is too little potential for tuning high-class cars. The real world has produced 1600hp+ Nissan GTRs, yet Forza can’t even top 1000hp. Low-class cars can be tuned really highly - the PI 150 VW Beetle can be boosted all the way to PI 906 if you equip AWD. However, the Nissan GTR can only be boosted from 702 to 894, falling short of a fully-tuned Beetle. Surely this can’t be right?

Some mods are overpowered

When doing the Indianapolis 250 Showcase event, I used a Mod card giving 10% more power and 6% more grip. I then set the Drivatar difficulty to Unbeatable. I won by several laps due to the extra power. No matter how good the drivatars get, they won’t be able to beat someone with considerably better stats. I suggest that all Highly Skilled drivatars are boosted by a random Common Crew mod, Experts get a random Uncommon, Pros get a Rare and Unbeatable drivatars are boosted by a random Super Rare. This should make the unbeatable drivatars a little more, um, unbeatable.

But this is meant to be Endurance!

When driving the Le Mans 250, the Audi R18 e-tron quattro only managed 4 laps between refuellings. In real-life, they do 13. I was going 100% throttle most of the time, whereas real 24-hour racers conserve fuel to keep to regulations, but 4 laps is really pathetic for an Endurance racer. Even worse, when doing a 2-lap Nordschliefe race with the Nissan GTR LM Nismo (with fuel+tyre wear turned on), I ran out of fuel just before finishing the second lap, effectively failing the whole race. What kind of endurance car can’t drive 26 miles without refueling? You don’t see marathon runners (coincidentally also running 26 miles) stopping to eat mid-race, do you?

Stories of Motorsport lap count

I think lap count should be adjusted for each race depending on the car class being raced. Some events, like Modern Hypercar, are over far too quickly. However, Vintage Touring (also Volume 3) races have the same number of laps, making them drag on and on. Formula E races in Volume 4 are particularly painful - doing 10 laps of the oval circuits in 140mph cars is just cruel monotony. This makes low PI races much longer than higher-PI races in the same volume - this is why I have a tendency to race the highest-PI class in each volume.

Rev counter display is in a bad spot

When learning manual shifting, I found that the rev-meter in the bottom-right corner is extremely difficult to read while still paying attention to the car in the middle of the screen. At the start, I resorted to turning on Telemetry, which displays the rev-count right in the middle of the screen for easy shifting. Luckily I have perfect pitch, so after a while, I noted down the musical note of each car’s engine at the shifting point. Sure, I could use Cockpit camera and use the car’s rev-meter, but I find it much easier to drive in Chase cam.

STM = Spinning Tyre Maker?

STM seems to do much more harm than good. Without it, I can drive cars like the LaFerrari perfectly fine. With it, they handle as if they’ve got twice as much power as their grip can take. When doing the HyperCar Shootout (Le Mans 1 lap) in the LaFerrari, I easily won. Repeating it with STM off and I only won by 100 feet or so.

Showcase event car choice

Some showcase events have extremely poor car choices. For example, the Top Gear Hot Rods Underdog challenge seems to be dominated by the 57 Bel Air - I’m not sure if any other cars are even useable here. The Moments in Motorsport Classic Road Racing Sports Cars has a gigantic PI gap - the highest PI car available (Maserati Tipo 61 Birdcage PI 574) is two classes above the Lotus Eleven PI 327. I know PI isn’t everything (a PI 863 Bugatti Veyron will beat a PI 999 Lotus E23 around an oval track), but I’m almost certain the Eleven can’t win.

[GamerBlades]

to answer your braking line question: its not an accurate ore even the fastest way to take a corner ore braking distance. its just an ‘‘assist’’ but its up to you to learn the track and the fastest way around it. sometimes the braking line is the fastest way and allot of other times as you say its a phantom braking line. I find myself very often to go wider then the breaking line. resulting in a higher speed out of the corner. T10 have said earlier that its not the best ore the fastest way around track but sometimes it is. that’s up to us to learn over time and experience ( itsjust an assist and not a blueprint around the track)

[VA_Funk]

@SluggedNebula2

Highly Skilled = Newb?

Sometimes, the drivatars make serious mistakes and end up crashing into tyre barriers, even on Highly Skilled and Expert difficulties. I’m not talking about the odd slip - quite often I see 10 drivatar cars come off the same bend. This seems to happen disproportionately often on Sonoma Raceway with the Lotus E23 (turn 4 is where it tends to happen), but sometimes happens on other tracks.

P and X class grid starts = demolition derby

This is why I turn off simulated damage when racing these cars. On tracks like the Nordschliefe, the start is so crowded that the game becomes a demolition derby. Real F1 and endurance races are much more civilized.

It’s interesting to imagine a pre-launch meeting at T10 that went, I assume, something like this:

Software Engineer: “Well, the AI cars still brake randomly on straights, can’t take any hairpin at more than 5 MPH, brake heavily on the Road America kink, consistently try to pass three-wide at the Laguna Seca corkscrew, deliberately crash into tire barriers at Laguna turn 2, Silverstone’s Vale, and several other spots on various tracks, generally take a 'fast in, slow out” approach to every corner, and are so unable to maintain any semblance of control of any car with an HP/weight ratio of less than 3 that half the field DNFs in a four-lap race."

Project Manager: “That’s exactly what we’re looking for. We’ll call that “Expert” difficulty.”

On the other hand, the graphics really are lovely.

[PPS_KillerDogma]

The phantom zones on Norschleif are sometimes indicating you may leave the track and become airborne. The Flugplatz which translates to “air field” is a good place to witness it and the early rises you can hear a jump in revs as you leave the ground. In some cars you can actually go 4-5 feet in the air and miss the entire turn and end up in the barrier before you touch back down.
Not sure if its still an issue in FM6 but previous versions you could cause a dirty lap by scraping your undercarriage.

[One_Refort]

@PPS_KillerDogma

The phantom zones on Norschleif are sometimes indicating you may leave the track and become airborne. The Flugplatz which translates to “air field” is a good place to witness it and the early rises you can hear a jump in revs as you leave the ground. In some cars you can actually go 4-5 feet in the air and miss the entire turn and end up in the barrier before you touch back down.
Not sure if its still an issue in FM6 but previous versions you could cause a dirty lap by scraping your undercarriage.

I don’t remember any of the previous Forzas changing to a dirty lap that way. I do remember damage in FM2 if you jumped too high and hit the ground hard.

But yeah, I agree that some braking lines are to prevent you going airborn. And on the alps, probably to prevent you from bottoming out as there a lot of sudden incline changes.

[PPS_KillerDogma]

@One_Refort

@PPS_KillerDogma

The phantom zones on Norschleif are sometimes indicating you may leave the track and become airborne. The Flugplatz which translates to “air field” is a good place to witness it and the early rises you can hear a jump in revs as you leave the ground. In some cars you can actually go 4-5 feet in the air and miss the entire turn and end up in the barrier before you touch back down.
Not sure if its still an issue in FM6 but previous versions you could cause a dirty lap by scraping your undercarriage.

I don’t remember any of the previous Forzas changing to a dirty lap that way. I do remember damage in FM2 if you jumped too high and hit the ground hard.

But yeah, I agree that some braking lines are to prevent you going airborn. And on the alps, probably to prevent you from bottoming out as there a lot of sudden incline changes.

I was having issues with dirty laps in rivals and couldn’t figure out why laps were starting dirty and several folks mentioned that this may have been the culprit. My issue was going off track in the last timing sector before the new lap started.

[Dante3003]

Uh that marathon comparison is actually a fail. Marathon runners “fuel” up all the time. Sure they won’t take dinner, but drinking and eating is a part of the race. So translating it back, it would mean that there would be gas stations all the way on the ring that could give you 5 - 10% of fuel for just a lift of the throttle.

But you are right that this is totally overdone. With some cars you’d need to pit in every lap…

[Muther_302]

@SluggedNebula2

I’m relatively new to Forza, having only started playing a few months ago. So far so good, but I have a few bugbears:

P and X class grid starts = demolition derby

This is why I turn off simulated damage when racing these cars. On tracks like the Nordschliefe, the start is so crowded that the game becomes a demolition derby. Real F1 and endurance races are much more civilized.
The Drivatars are trained by real gamers/drivers. It is not all surprising that this happens. Yes, it is a problem, there are only work arounds, no fixes.

Braking Lines

I use the braking line - it is an immense help. However, phantom braking zones appear on the tops of slopes (plenty of them in the Nordschliefe) and on steep slopes such as the downhill section in the Bermese Alps track. On the other hand, the braking line sometimes grossly underestimates the amount of braking required, such as Sonoma turn 4 (that might be what’s causing the mass-gathering of drivatars on the tyre barriers), and pretty much everywhere when driving cars from the Modern Hypercar class.

Braking lines are a great assist for learning that basics of any track, but they are suggestions only. You will get faster, if you turn the braking lines off, and start using your own braking markers ( a tree, a guard rail, a patch of black pavement, or the braking zone indicator signs).

Tuning

I feel that there is too little potential for tuning high-class cars. The real world has produced 1600hp+ Nissan GTRs, yet Forza can’t even top 1000hp. Low-class cars can be tuned really highly - the PI 150 VW Beetle can be boosted all the way to PI 906 if you equip AWD. However, the Nissan GTR can only be boosted from 702 to 894, falling short of a fully-tuned Beetle. Surely this can’t be right?

There are all sorts of cars in the physical world, that the FM6 game engine cannot successfully resolve/simulate. A Funny car or Top Fuel dragster has roughly 10,000 hp. FM6 does not have the computational power to simulate this, AND simulate all of the other cars, too. So, they build their game engine to handle the greatest number of cars/tracks. As an aside, I have witnessed an acquaintance do many 9 second quarter mile drag runs, in a 1960’s VW Beetle, with a (veeeeeery non-stock air cooled VW engine and chassis. VW Bugs, CAN put out well over a thousand HP properly modified. They are juuuust a bit grenade-ish though.

Some mods are overpowered

When doing the Indianapolis 250 Showcase event, I used a Mod card giving 10% more power and 6% more grip. I then set the Drivatar difficulty to Unbeatable. I won by several laps due to the extra power. No matter how good the drivatars get, they won’t be able to beat someone with considerably better stats. I suggest that all Highly Skilled drivatars are boosted by a random Common Crew mod, Experts get a random Uncommon, Pros get a Rare and Unbeatable drivatars are boosted by a random Super Rare. This should make the unbeatable drivatars a little more, um, unbeatable.

The only time I have a problem beating any Drivatar, on any difficulty, is in the rain. I sometimes have a hard time with the top tier drivatars in the rain, particularly at the Nordschleiffe and Spa. But I digress, the Drivatars are NOT where the fun is, that is with friends, in a clean room, and we put money on the line (disclaimer: we are not gambling, and I don’t condone gambling, and I know it is against the T&C’s. All proceeds are donated to charity.)

But this is meant to be Endurance!

When driving the Le Mans 250, the Audi R18 e-tron quattro only managed 4 laps between refuellings. In real-life, they do 13. I was going 100% throttle most of the time, whereas real 24-hour racers conserve fuel to keep to regulations, but 4 laps is really pathetic for an Endurance racer. Even worse, when doing a 2-lap Nordschliefe race with the Nissan GTR LM Nismo (with fuel+tyre wear turned on), I ran out of fuel just before finishing the second lap, effectively failing the whole race. What kind of endurance car can’t drive 26 miles without refueling? You don’t see marathon runners (coincidentally also running 26 miles) stopping to eat mid-race, do you?

Don’t know how much fuel each car holds, but I’d expect (based on physical world racing experience) a high performance car, driven at maximum velocity, to get in the range of 1-3 miles per gallon. Top speed runs burn fuel at truly ridiculous rates. While not exact, I have found Forza to be realistic enough for me. I have never had a problem, in any car in the game, getting two full laps at the Nordshleiffe. I will run out of fuel fairly soon into the second lap.

Stories of Motorsport lap count

I think lap count should be adjusted for each race depending on the car class being raced. Some events, like Modern Hypercar, are over far too quickly. However, Vintage Touring (also Volume 3) races have the same number of laps, making them drag on and on. Formula E races in Volume 4 are particularly painful - doing 10 laps of the oval circuits in 140mph cars is just cruel monotony. This makes low PI races much longer than higher-PI races in the same volume - this is why I have a tendency to race the highest-PI class in each volume.
I agree 100%. If this were my game, I’d do the career differently. That is why I race in MP, and with friends.

Rev counter display is in a bad spot

When learning manual shifting, I found that the rev-meter in the bottom-right corner is extremely difficult to read while still paying attention to the car in the middle of the screen. At the start, I resorted to turning on Telemetry, which displays the rev-count right in the middle of the screen for easy shifting. Luckily I have perfect pitch, so after a while, I noted down the musical note of each car’s engine at the shifting point. Sure, I could use Cockpit camera and use the car’s rev-meter, but I find it much easier to drive in Chase cam.
I agree 100%. I do the same thing in FOrza, and I used to do the same thing when I used to race. I used a mix of the engine note and shift marlkers. Like racing in the physical world, I don’t use the tach, I use shift points on the track mostly. Just like every racer has braking points, and turn in points, I use shift points. I don’t shift according to the engine so much, I shift according to where the car is on the track. It takes very little time to learn. On some cars, early on, I painted a black patch on part of the car, so that the heads up tacho was easier to see.

STM = Spinning Tyre Maker?

STM seems to do much more harm than good. Without it, I can drive cars like the LaFerrari perfectly fine. With it, they handle as if they’ve got twice as much power as their grip can take. When doing the HyperCar Shootout (Le Mans 1 lap) in the LaFerrari, I easily won. Repeating it with STM off and I only won by 100 feet or so.
I find that I am faster with STM off, and for that matter, with ABS, and Traction control off, too. If you tune the brakes correctly, and use proper braking technique, you an shorten your braking distances radically, and still have plenty of time to set up for your turn in. STM ,and TCS are the same thing. I can get closer to the ragged edge all by myself than they allow. The only car I need any help with, is the Lotus F1 car (e23?). I can drive it with no assist, but not quickly. I need Traction control to drive it quickly. For every other car, I am quicker with all assists off.

Showcase event car choice

Some showcase events have extremely poor car choices. For example, the Top Gear Hot Rods Underdog challenge seems to be dominated by the 57 Bel Air - I’m not sure if any other cars are even useable here. The Moments in Motorsport Classic Road Racing Sports Cars has a gigantic PI gap - the highest PI car available (Maserati Tipo 61 Birdcage PI 574) is two classes above the Lotus Eleven PI 327. I know PI isn’t everything (a PI 863 Bugatti Veyron will beat a PI 999 Lotus E23 around an oval track), but I’m almost certain the Eleven can’t win.

I have not run them, except for a few, just for kicks. Again, the real fun in Forza is finding a good online race (except for the first half lap, that is a challenge). The best thing to do, is to find a bunch of like minded/skilled folks, and compete with them. That said, there are street cars that will beat their racing brethren on some tracks. Take the Saleen S7 and the S7R. The S7 street car, is more powerful, by like 200hp, than the restricted for racing only S7R. I’d expect the street S7, with its much higher top speed, to beat the S7R around any oval track, or any Road/Oval like Daytona.